Poll finds broad approval of terrorist torture. Most in U.S., ....say torture justified

MSNBC ^ | Updated: 9:29 p.m. ET Dec. 6, 2005 | Unsigned

[.cnI redruM]

WASHINGTON - Most Americans and a majority of people in Britain, France and South Korea say torturing terrorism suspects is justified at least in rare instances, according to AP-Ipsos polling.

The United States has drawn criticism from human rights groups and many governments, especially in Europe, for its treatment of terror suspects. President Bush and other top officials have said the U.S. does not torture, but some suspects in American custody have alleged they were victims of severe mistreatment.

The polling, in the United States and eight of its closest allies, found that in Canada, Mexico and Germany people are divided on whether torture is ever justified. Most people opposed torture under any circumstances in Spain and Italy.

[kidd]

The media continues to lump all torture into the same boat.

Does torture mean
- rape and dismemberment, or
- panties on the head and the comfy chair?

[Publius6961]

War is the last resort. Wars should be fought to protect ones's citizens. Winning as quickly as possible is the second serious concept here.

As soon as "rules" are allowed in wars, asinine results like these discussions ensue.

You want me to fight your war for you? Don't give me any rules!

You want to make rules? You better be there beside me, experiencing the results. Otherwise don't bother me!

[Publius6961]

Most Americans support abortion, so I suppose that makes it right.

A false conclusion based on a false premise.
I don't believe a majority of Americans support late term killings. Not even close.

Just as most Americans do not support the rampant intrusion of the "pervert" lifestyle in our daily life.

And yet we must deal with that, too.

[The_Victor]

The activities that I have read about that the MSM keeps calling torture are allowed under the Geneva convention. I reject the notion that the USA is torturing anyone, and therefor requires no justification whatsoever.

[2001convSVT]

That is my hope also. "Wrongway McCain" feels (along with the media) that he is entitled to the 2008 nomination. He has a good chance to win in New Hampshire and Iowa but South Carolina will thumb their noses at him. I hope that he has a melt down during or after the South Carolina primary.

[sheltonmac]

What are your feelings about using coercion/torture on a committed Islamic terrorist to obtain attack information if the life of your mother, father, sister, brother, husband, wife, son, daughter, boyfriend, or girlfriend is on the line?

When it comes to this issue, why does everyone resort to playing on people's fears and emotions? Isn't that a tactic normally employed by the left?

Okay, I'll play along. I'm just as human as the next guy, so if someone I loved were in danger, I have my doubts as to what extremes I would go to ensure their safety. But this goes above and beyond mere personal interests. We're talking about official policy.

You think it's fine to torture a "committed Islamic terrorist." Why be so specific? Why not include the friends and family of a committed Islamic terrorist? If torturing them might reveal his location, would it be worth it?

And why limit torture to the military? Wouldn't it come in handy in domestic criminal investigations such as kidnapping cases?

Since you are the one advocating torture, what restrictions (if any) would you set on its use? How would we know that we have gone too far? And what assurance do we have that giving the government an inch won't mean they will take a mile? Or two? Or 100?

[Blue Jays]

Hi The_Victor:

The so-called "torture techniques" allegedly being used by the United States would cause a fraternity or sorority pledge to burst out in laughter! I knew kids in college who were compelled to drive the length of state toll roads completely naked paying for $0.25 tolls with crisp $100.00 bills. They suffered no permanent psychological damage and now laugh about it decades later. I'm sure the tollbooth collectors are still chuckling, too.

If innocent student can handle the temporary stress, I would have thought that committed jihadists were a bit tougher. Perhaps I'm wrong about those swarthy desert sissies.

~ Blue Jays ~

[The_Victor]

We are losing this debate by allowing the left and our enemies to redefine torture. The Geneva convention clearly defines torture, and the US isn't torturing anyone.

[Blzbba]

Yeah, and many polls show that Americans think Bush is doing a bad job.

Polls are useless and this one is no different.

[Blue Jays]

Hi Sheltonmac-

"...You think it's fine to torture a "committed Islamic terrorist." Why be so specific? Why not include the friends and family of a committed Islamic terrorist? If torturing them might reveal his location, would it be worth it?..."

---

Now you're talking like a patriotic American again! I'm glad to see that you're coming around to recognize what needs to be done at pivotal times in our nation's history. We could break someone like Mohammad Atta if we had his mother on the telephone along with pictures of her with the current day's newspaper.

The fact-of-the-matter of why peoples' fears and emotions are brought into the discussion are because innocent terror victims ARE someone's family and friends. Terrorists have to learn one way or the other that there will be negative consequences to harming U.S. citizens anywhere in the world.

As far as your unlikely concerns about coercion/torture techniques being employed for domestic law enforcement, we can cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm just as concerned about statists as anyone else, but I think your fears are unfounded.

~ Blue Jays ~

[GVnana]

McCain must have the absolute worst advisors

Naw. It's just McCain.

[Little Ray]

If a terrorist had information that could save ONE American life, I'd pull out the pinchers and blowtorches and get to work.

[sheltonmac]

As far as your unlikely concerns about coercion/torture techniques being employed for domestic law enforcement, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

With all the discussion devoted to this issue, it's becoming quite clear who will be leading the charge across that bridge. My fear, unfounded as it may seem, is that once we are on the other side, we will burn it as we have so many others.

[.cnI redruM]

>>>>Since you are the one advocating torture, what restrictions (if any) would you set on its use? How would we know that we have gone too far? And what assurance do we have that giving the government an inch won't mean they will take a mile? Or two? Or 100?


1) There are no 'hard-fast rules' on any of the great ethical gray areas. If there were, you me, John Kerry and Indira Ghandi would have four separate contextual understandings of what those rules meant.

2) Subjective decision-making is necessary in life. The obvious extreme case Charles Krauthammer makes with the 'Ticking Bomb Analogy' is one pole of a spectrum. 'The torture as SOP' exaggeration put forth by Komrade Kerry was yet another.

Life would be a heck of a lot simpler if we could speak in terms of always and never and not risk being colossally wrong, but that's not how existence works.

[rightwinggoth]

"It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again!"

[eleni121]

Most Americans support abortion, so I suppose that makes it right.

---

You're wrong. Not any more.

[eleni121]

Could someone give me a definition of "torture" by the US in the war on terror?

no sugar with your coffee? No hi def TV? No access to Ramsey Clark?

[.cnI redruM]

That brings up an interesting historical question. Who really won The American Civil War? A lot of people say Ulysses S. Grant. I beg to differ. Sheridan, Custer, Butler and Sherman won the war. They burned the limited industrial capacity of The South to the ground and broke the will of The CSA. That's how you win. That's what we have to do to every enclave the Bin Ladins of the world hold fast in.

[.cnI redruM]

...and the Game Boy is strictly off limits to boot.

[eleni121]

No Game boy? That would be torture go for some of these disgusting savages.