Posted on 12/13/2005 9:20:22 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
Hollowed bullet easy to get & hard to survive
BY ALISON GENDAR and DAVE GOLDINER DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Hollow-point bullets like the one used in the slaying of Officer Daniel Enchautegui are much deadlier than ordinary bullets - and nearly as easy to get.
Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.
But they want their public sale banned to keep them out of the hands of thugs like Enchautegui's alleged killers, Steven Armento and Lillo Brancato.
"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."
Armento allegedly shot Enchautegui with his father's .357-caliber handgun, loaded with the hollow-point bullets.
Anyone with a gun permit can buy the hollow-points in a gun shop. They also are readily available on the black market.
"Anybody can go out and buy them," said Michael Palladino, head of the Detectives' Endowment Association.
The main difference between hollow-point and regular, "full-metal jacket" bullets is that the hollow-points flatten on impact and expand inside a target.
The NYPD switched to the new ammo in 1999.
"They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.
An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet.
So I guess if the cop was shot with a FMJ he would have lived?
What a stupid article.
"The only thing that could have saved them, was another group of hard men, with guns in hand. Think about that for a while".
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1533337/posts?page=27#27
'twas an amendment to the Hague Convention of 1899 - which the USA did NOT sign. Jacketed hollow/soft-points were new and unusual at the time; now, 106 years later, they're the norm.
yep, available here ---->> GunsAmerica (Its kind of like an eBay for firearms.)
IIRC Talons are $50.00 a box.
You can probably produce them in your basement.
So what??
Its the nut behind the gun, not the bullet who amkes the decision to do the killing.
But the same jerks who defended Tookie Williams are in the forefront of harassing law-abiding gun-owners.
Illegal to hunt deer in Kentucky with full metal jacketed ammo. Hollow points are the most proficient.
get on gunbroker.com search for black talons. there's usually a number of them for sale.
If Officer Enchautegui is the one I'm thinking of (read it in the NY Post last week), he DID have a vest on and was shot by 'luck' in the armpit.
Got it screen bookmarked. Thanks. I must have been looking too hard. $50.00----how many in a box?
eh.. i'd rather use glassers or frangibles for home defense anyway :)
Can't hollow points be cast at home as easily as solid bullet?
Thanks. I'll go there now.
Modern hollow points penetrate, then mushroom so they come to a rapid stop. The mushroom increases the surface area and ensure delivering the kinetic energy to the target. An FMJ usually retains its shape and goes straight through soft tissue. Hitting bone changes the results dramatically. The projectile frequently shatters.
A hollow point is preferable to avoid having the round go through the intended target. The reduced penetration applies to household walls as wells. It's just a much better choice.
You're welcome.
IIRC it was 20 in the box. That's to pricey for me.
I use have Glaser Safety Slugs for my Makarov, some old SuperVels for my .38 Colt (those things kick ass, wish they were still made) and Federal Hydra-Shok for my 9mm
And naturally some 'run of the mill' jacketed hollow points and some 'ball ammo' too.
"Somewhere in a drawer in my house is a box of Black Talons."
Hey, now! Them there are them cop-killer bullets. I'm going to tell on you! [grin]
Hell with hollow points, I always found the gel ones far more cool...
Pass through soft tissue no problem, but far less likely to pass through walls and other objects.
He'll be wanting some of those. Thanks for the site.
One would hope that any bullet penetrates. It's passing through and hitting an unintended target that the hollow points are used by the NY police
I'll stick with my .303 for long range, my 12 ga. up close, and my mini revolver for in my face nose to nose close.
Thanks for the link.
Except in faciast communities like NYC or New Jersey, anyone over the age of 18 can buy hollow point ammo at their local Walmart
There is NOTHING uniqely potent about hollow point ammo. It expands - big deal, so does soft point and unjacketed lead. It just expands faster than jacketed soft point - because jacketed soft point is designed to expand slower to facilitate greater penetration.
Because of the fast expansion, hollow point is a great bullet design for hunting varmints and small game - loaded in a high velocity round you get high expansion very rapidly in only a couple of inches.
For the same reason, most hollow point bullets don't work all that well as a defensive round - they expand too quickly, resulting in relatively shallow penetration.
A bullet kills by penetrating deeply anough to reach large blood vessels and major organs, and by creating a big enough permanant hole to seriously damage or destroy same. A great deal of pharensic evidence exists to demonstrate that a round needs to reliably penetrate 8 - 12" of ballistic gelatin to be a reliable stopper. A lot of "home defense" and specialty "low penetration" ammo fails to do this.
The most effective defensive rounds for pistols include soft points and jacketed hollow points, but the JHP tend to be big (150 grain 357 mag, 147 grain 9mm, 170 grain .40) and either pretty high velocity (giving you good penetration despite the expansion, in the case of the 357 and 40) or relatively resistant to expansion (in the case of the 147 grain subsonic used by lots of police departments)
Honestly, the only thing that I have learned from the various articles posted about ammo and the NYPD (other than they use FMJ for their pistol ammo, which is a change from the days when everyone used unjacketed 38 ammo in their revolvers) is that most "journalists" don't know anything about guns or ammunition.
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