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To: highlander_UW
No, Sola Scriptura(Scriptures) and Sola Fide(Faith Alone)or Faith without works; i.e. Talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

James 2:14-26
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled;" notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Matthew 19:16-21
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" And he said unto him, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." He saith unto him, "Which?" Jesus said, "thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." The young man saith unto him, "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" Jesus said unto him, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Catholics prayers are only directed to God through his grace and glory granted by him alone, not directly to Saints or the Blessed Mother (Mary) we seek intercession and invocation of the faithful here on earth and in heaven for they are one body with Christ. To ask saints both here on earth and heaven to pray for us, to God, not that God may know our petition from them, but that their prayers and the merits of our prayers be efficacious.

"And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel" (Revelation 8:3-4).
76 posted on 12/21/2005 12:14:52 PM PST by FFIGHTER (Character Matters!)
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To: FFIGHTER
No, Sola Scriptura(Scriptures) and Sola Fide(Faith Alone)or Faith without works; i.e. Talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

You seem to be trying to wind this into some debate other than my original, and accurate statement. Not really interested, sorry...but I am quite familiar with the topics of sola scriptura and sola fide.

Catholics prayers are only directed to God through his grace and glory granted by him alone, not directly to Saints or the Blessed Mother (Mary) we seek intercession and invocation of the faithful here on earth and in heaven for they are one body with Christ.

As an ex-catholic I know this isn't true in general, but glad to hear it from you personally. But I would point out that it's counter-biblical to seek intercession from anyone but Jesus...who is our ONLY intercessor.

To ask saints both here on earth and heaven to pray for us, to God, not that God may know our petition from them, but that their prayers and the merits of our prayers be efficacious.

The apostles asked Jesus to teach them to pray and what He taught had nothing to do with praying to dead saints or angels, asking them to intercede for them.

Listen, my original point was that all believers are saints...it does not take some special pronouncement from the pope or anyone else to make one a saint. You have changed the topic from that to the efficacy of praying to saints and angels asking them to pray for us. Perhaps you made this change in topic because you sensed you had no case on the original point...but you've moved to another losing point. It seems pointless to go around and around on these topics. I know that I'm right in these two regards...and it's also equally likely that you're not going to change your views because you see yourself as some defender of the RCC...even though my original point was not an attack on the RCC but rather a statement of fact that you took offense at.

77 posted on 12/21/2005 1:30:02 PM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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