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Civil war erupts over Confederate handbags
DFW ^ | January 6, 2006 | JIM DOUGLAS

Posted on 01/06/2006 12:05:39 PM PST by stainlessbanner

BURLESON — Two North Texas high school students who were kicked out of class for displaying rebel flags vow to take their fight to court. They said they are proud of their heritage, but Burleson High School education officials maintain the Confederate symbol is offensive.

Ashley Thomas remembered how it all started. "Principal comes up and says, 'You've got to get rid of your purse... it's racist."

Ashley and Aubrie McAllum both received purses patterened after the Confederate battle flag from their parents for Christmas. Both girls decided to take their presents to school.

"I don't have 'KKK' written on me or anything; it's just a purse," Aubrie said. "Doesn't have anything to do with what color you are."

The students were asked to leave their purses with the principal; they elected to leave school after calling their parents.

Ashley was sent home three times this week. "I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said. "I want to keep going to school and get my education, but this is my life. I was born and raised in the South. Why is the flag so bad?"

Here's the answer, from Burleson ISD spokesman Richard Crummel: "It's a violation of the dress code," he said. "We don't want students to wear anything that might cause a disruption, and that symbol has done that in the past."

"Then that's a heritage violation on her, on me... on all of us," said Aubrie's father, Rick McAllum. "So we can push it."

McAllum belongs to the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Ashley's mom, Joni Thomas, is from New York. But the parents of both girls praised their daughters, and vowed to fight.

"I'm hiring a lawyer," Thomas said. "I'm going all the way with it, because I think it's wrong."

Burleson High School, with a 2,200 student enrollment, is about 90 percent white, 8 or 9 percent Hispanic. There are very few African Americans.

"We want to be sensitive to everyone; make it comfortable in school for all our students," Crummel said.

Both girls said they have never been in trouble and don't want trouble now.

But they don't want to back down, either.

School officials know controversy often follows the Confederate flag, and they will not let it in.

The girls as of Friday, decided to go back to school


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: confederate; dixie; handbags; heritage; heroines; history; ignorance; lawsuit; martyrs; tx; violation; wbts
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To: varina davis

"There are no KFC's north of Dixie?"


I don't know. I try not go north of Dixie.


151 posted on 01/06/2006 1:27:10 PM PST by Blzbba (Sub sole nihil novi est)
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To: stainlessbanner

what an ugly bag


152 posted on 01/06/2006 1:27:50 PM PST by SunnyUsa (No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.)
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To: Blzbba

check this out:

http://www.warchronicle.com/terrorwar/historiantales/autumnofwar.htm


Hanson's An Autumn of War is a collection of essays written from 11 September 2001 to 22 December 2001. Each is valuable as a record of recent history and as a thought-provoking assessment of the way ahead.

As one example, Hanson writes compellingly of General Sherman and the American way of war. In an article written on 25 September he writes:

Often Sherman's type of war is misunderstood and said to be itself terrorist or inhumane. In that regard, contrasts can be made between Robert E. Lee and Sherman. The former, who wrecked his army by sending thousands on frontal charges against an entrenched enemy and whose family owned slaves, enjoys the reputation of a reluctant, humane knight who battled for a cause—states' rights and the sanctity of Southern soil—other than slavery. The latter, who was careful to save his soldiers from annihilation and who freed thousands of slaves in Georgia, is too often seen as a murderous warrior who fought for a cause—federalism and the punishment of treason—other than freedom.

Lee crafted the wrong offensive strategy for an outmanned and outproduced South that led to horrendous casualties. Yet Sherman's marches drew naturally on the materiel and human surpluses of the North and so cracked the core of the Confederacy with few killed on either side. Lee wrongly thought the Union soldier would not fight as well as the Confederate; Sherman rightly guessed that the destruction of Southern property would topple the entire Confederacy. The one ordered thousands to their deaths when the cause was clearly lost; the other destroyed millions of dollars of property to hasten the end of bloodshed. Yet Sherman—who fought on the winning side, who promised in the abstract death and terror, who was unkempt, garrulous, and blunt—is usually criticized. Lee—who embodies the Lost Cause, who wrote of honor and sacrifice, and who was dapper, genteel, and mannered—is canonized.

The lesson? By attacking the infrastructure of our enemies and thereby saving lives in the long run, we must, as Machiavelli warned, expect not to be lauded, but rather caricatured and even despised as cruel. Sherman also had a keen sense of sociology. In his view, the rich and landowning class of the South had instigated hostilities; yet more often the poor free whites of the Confederacy, who did not own slaves, were dying. In Sherman's view it was far more humane to attack the property of those responsible for the conflict than to end the lives of those who were not. Only that way could the entire population learn the wages of supporting a reckless but impotent Confederate government.

Henry Hitchcock, an officer on Sherman's staff, summed up his general's use of psychological warfare.

Not we but their “leaders” and their own moral and physical cowardice three years ago are responsible. This Union and its Government must be sustained, at any and every cost; to sustain it, we must war upon and destroy the organized rebel forces,—must cut off their supplies, destroy their communications, and show their white slaves (these people say themselves that they are so) their utter inability to resist the power of the U.S. To do this implies and requires these very sufferings, and having thus only the choice of evils—war now so terrible and successful that none can dream of rebellion hereafter, or everlasting war with all these evils magnified a hundred fold hereafter—we have no other course to take.

What can we learn in the present age from General Sherman about the waging of war? The real morality in war hinges not on damage wrought but rather concerns the moral imperative to reduce the number of dead and so end the killing as quickly as possible. To accomplish that goal an army must attack in overwhelming strength and be imbued with a clear moral sense. The presence of sixty-two thousand infantrymen in the heart of the South shocked the citizenry of the Confederacy and prevented various forces under Generals Bragg, Wheeler, and Hardee from offering any defense. Yet the Army of the West wrought such cruel material damage because it believed its cause was just—the South had prompted the war and owned slaves while midwesterners were ending it and freeing the unfree.

In the present context, General Sherman would advise our military planners to use crushing force against our enemies in the Middle East, targeted especially against those who started the war, the personal assets of the terrorists, and the government and military infrastructure of the Taliban and Iraq. And he would urge that we must wage such a full-fledged war constantly with the refrain that an attacked United States was seeking to end terrorism and to overturn the political hierarchy of those guilty illegitimate governments. Cheering in the streets of Arab capitals and posters of bin Laden will disappear only when the ignorant understand the terrible costs of supporting the murderers of Americans. Only with a spiritual element to our battle can a humane society stomach the sheer devastation its army unleashes. “There is a soul to an army,” Sherman wrote, “as well as to the individual man, and no general can accomplish the full work of his army unless he commands the soul of his men, as well as their bodies and legs.”


153 posted on 01/06/2006 1:28:01 PM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: Getsmart64
I retired in '02 and trust me I'm not using slavery as an excuse for anything. Never have and never will. Like you, I've earned everything I have. I'm proud that my family served this country honorably even when they had to do it in segregated units because the PA farmboy wouldn't, as you say. Don't buy into the stereotypical images you see on TV. We all don't live in N.O.
154 posted on 01/06/2006 1:28:04 PM PST by blaquebyrd
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To: AzaleaCity5691
Try reading this if you think the Civil War was over tariffs.
155 posted on 01/06/2006 1:28:58 PM PST by My2Cents (Dead people voting is the closest the Democrats come to believing in eternal life.)
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To: My2Cents

Awful lot of people died for something they didn't own.


156 posted on 01/06/2006 1:29:49 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: dpa5923
Oh, I don't think that exact shirt was worn anywhere. I was just using it as an example. I know there have been many examples of crude Bush-bashing clothing and apparel worn in the classroom, but I don't think that kind of wordage has popped up (yet).

A recent story is Student Wins Anti-Bush Shirt Clash, but that shirt was certainly not that vulgar. I didn't mean to suggest such a shirt had been worn before, just that there's an irritating double-standard when it comes to these kinds of things. Sorry for the confusion.
157 posted on 01/06/2006 1:30:06 PM PST by Termite_Commander (Warning: Cynical Right-winger Ahead)
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To: tkathy
Not true as to the idiots, you are living proof they still are amongst us.
158 posted on 01/06/2006 1:30:39 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis

Why bother when the Mexican flag is way more prevalent here in TX?

Do you have one that says "Viva La Raza?"


159 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:13 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
Lincoln actually did the Blacks no favor when he 'freed' them so they could work in the northern industrial explosion!

I'm not sure you would get much agreement for this proposition from the Blacks.

160 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:30 PM PST by CharacterCounts
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To: dinoparty

This is not about the Civil War but a purse! I have seen worse pictures on purses. They just have to complain about something. If they had a picture of Che ? on them, no one would have said a word.


161 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:30 PM PST by MamaB (mom to an Angel)
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To: AzaleaCity5691
The War of Southern Independence was a war that was fought for reasons that stretched back to the nullification crisis of 1832, it stemmed directly from a chain of events that began with Calhoun's resignation.

Hmmm. I suppose you wouldn't want to mention the 1833 compromise bill on the tariff proposed by Clay, signed by Jackson, and supported by Calhoun. But for goodness sake, don't mention the Dred Scott decision? John Brown? Popular Soverignty> The Kansas-Nebraska bill? The uproar over whether Kansas was going to entered as a slave or as a free state? Yeah, you better not mention any of that, because if you do, you're earlier statement that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery will be shown to be clearly delusional.

Sure the tariffs were a hot-button issue and I would grant that they added fuel to the conflict; but to say that the issue of slavery was not a factor in the Civil War just make you look silly.

162 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:34 PM PST by PMCarey
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To: wallcrawlr

Lee's actions involved attacking SOLDIERS.

Sherman's explicitly involved attacking CITIZENS.

Sherman was a terrorist.


163 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:47 PM PST by Blzbba (Sub sole nihil novi est)
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To: stainlessbanner
Here's the answer, from Burleson ISD spokesman Richard Crummel: "It's a violation of the dress code," he said. "We don't want students to wear anything that might cause a disruption, and that symbol has done that in the past."

So's the union flag. When are we getting rid of that?

164 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:50 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Centurion2000

However, you can't deny that the rebel flag has been taken over by some pretty creepy racist elements in the 20th century. Most people associate it with these elements, not with the civil war.

Does that mean that the assuming masses should therefore dictate what symbols the rest of the people can use? History is complex and symbols have various meanings at different times. Just because some group hijacks the meaning of a symbol doesn't make it illegal to use. Otherwise Buddhists wouldn't be able to use the swastika or they would be accused of "hate crimes". I say let free speech rule.


165 posted on 01/06/2006 1:32:17 PM PST by old republic
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To: My2Cents
Had the confederates taken a stand for the defense of states' rights on some other issue besides slavery, they may have had a defensible point.

Show me a historical factual quote of a Southern diplomat stating that the only reason their state was voting for succession was because of slavery....please...

166 posted on 01/06/2006 1:32:28 PM PST by Getsmart64
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To: My2Cents
"Were you typing this as you were hiding out in your bunker? Get a frickin' life."

I have a great life and cherishing my heritage is a major part of it. You should be so lucky!

167 posted on 01/06/2006 1:32:31 PM PST by varina davis
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To: Froufrou; blaquebyrd

Oops, sorry! I guess you meant that post to go to blaquebyrd...


168 posted on 01/06/2006 1:32:33 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: tkathy

next time...close your mouth before inserting your foot


169 posted on 01/06/2006 1:32:34 PM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: wallcrawlr

Outstanding. Thanks for posting.


170 posted on 01/06/2006 1:32:35 PM PST by My2Cents (Dead people voting is the closest the Democrats come to believing in eternal life.)
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To: Jaded

Yes, and how tragic that poor farmers would be roped into defense of what amounted to a civil insurrection designed to perpetuate the plantation culture.


171 posted on 01/06/2006 1:33:47 PM PST by My2Cents (Dead people voting is the closest the Democrats come to believing in eternal life.)
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To: Blzbba

By your logic, Eisenhower was a terrorist for the firebombing of Berlin.


172 posted on 01/06/2006 1:34:41 PM PST by My2Cents (Dead people voting is the closest the Democrats come to believing in eternal life.)
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To: Blzbba

173 posted on 01/06/2006 1:35:04 PM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: My2Cents

"By your logic, Eisenhower was a terrorist for the firebombing of Berlin."


Did Ike intentionally target citizens or target German factories?


174 posted on 01/06/2006 1:36:17 PM PST by Blzbba (Sub sole nihil novi est)
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To: silentreignofheros

I did for one summer or fall and boy, that was enough for me. I do not want to do that ever again! One hundred pounds is a lot of cotton.


175 posted on 01/06/2006 1:36:40 PM PST by MamaB (mom to an Angel)
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To: stainlessbanner
The confederate flag has nothing to do with Heritage.

Schools should be allowed to limit what students display on their clothing or handbags.

There is nothing about a confederate flag that should prevent anyone from displaying it if they so choose.

176 posted on 01/06/2006 1:37:40 PM PST by Casloy
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To: sandbar

I have several ancestors who fought for that flag, too. One had a bad foot so he could not fight but he did his part by making shoes for the soldiers.


177 posted on 01/06/2006 1:38:11 PM PST by MamaB (mom to an Angel)
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To: Getsmart64
Show me a historical factual quote of a Southern diplomat stating that the only reason their state was voting for succession was because of slavery....please...

Show me a historical factual quote in which Lincoln states that he wants to outlaw slavery in the states. The most he wanted to do in 1860 was to limit its spread to the territories. He made a very fine legal case for his position in the 1860 speech at Cooper Union. But territories are not states and thus why should say, South Carolina, care whether or not there are slaveholders in the western territories if they were only concerned about state's rights?

178 posted on 01/06/2006 1:38:15 PM PST by PMCarey
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To: pbrown

Are you referring to the "War of Northern Agression"?


179 posted on 01/06/2006 1:38:34 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: CharacterCounts

http://165.29.91.7/classes/humanities/amstud/97-98/weapons/thesis1.htm


180 posted on 01/06/2006 1:38:40 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: stainlessbanner

bump for later


181 posted on 01/06/2006 1:39:30 PM PST by SirChas (I seem to be rapidly approaching the apex of my mediocre career)
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To: old republic
"Technically its true. Abraham Lincoln and most Northerners didn't fight the Civil War over slavery. They mainly fought the war in order to preserve the Union. The Emancipation Proclamation issued on January 1, 1863 only freed slaves in areas engaged in rebellion. It was a way to bring the South into submission during the war. Slavery was still legal in the states that did not secede. Abraham Lincoln also wanted to send the freed slaves back to Africa which is an interesting slant on the Great Emancipator."

Lincoln was a sincere and devoted abolitionist. There is no doubt that he wanted the slaves to be free. His second Inaugural Address leaves no doubt that in his mind the war was fought to free the slaves. However, you must remember, his first priority in the war was to preserve the Union. Not only because that is what he was sworn to do when he took the oath as President , but also, and most importantly, because if he didn't preserve the Union, he could not have freed any slaves.
182 posted on 01/06/2006 1:39:43 PM PST by Main Street (Stuck in traffic)
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To: varina davis
The War of Northern Aggression was not lost and there was no official surrender by the CSA.

Heh. Let me know when you get your act back together, then. I've got a wad of Dixie dollars I'd like to redeem at face value.

183 posted on 01/06/2006 1:40:11 PM PST by LexBaird ("I'm not questioning your patriotism, I'm answering your treason."--JennysCool)
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To: My2Cents

Did Ike also knowingly allow his soldiers to rape German women, the way Sherman turned a blind eye to that? Did Ike order his soldiers to burn conquered German towns to the ground, regardless of their military value?

I understand the concept of "Total War"...but if Sherman had kept the citizenry out of it, I wouldn't be calling him 'terrorist'.

All he had to do (and did) was smash the remnants of the Confederacy stationed in GA as he Marched to the Sea. The burning of ATL and Columbia, SC did nothing to hasten the conclusion of the War Between the States.


184 posted on 01/06/2006 1:40:37 PM PST by Blzbba (Sub sole nihil novi est)
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To: PMCarey

Good post, Carey!


185 posted on 01/06/2006 1:40:42 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou

I don't need to review some humanities thesis. Just ask a few blacks if they want to be slaves. I think their answer would be the same as yours.


186 posted on 01/06/2006 1:41:26 PM PST by CharacterCounts
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To: Blzbba

I have to agree with you. There was also the fact that the North didn't have plantations, they had factories. And they wanted workers for those factories.

All the better reason to free the slaves.


187 posted on 01/06/2006 1:43:31 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: My2Cents
Are you giving an argument for revisionists?
188 posted on 01/06/2006 1:43:42 PM PST by Getsmart64
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To: VRWCmember
Have the 8 or 9 percent Hispanic students complained about the racism of the Texas flag that flys in front of the school?

If they did, Juan Seguin, and all the Tejanos that died at Golid, Gonzales, and the Alamo, would come back from the grave and beat the snot out of 'em. :)

189 posted on 01/06/2006 1:44:32 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: TC Rider
"War of Northern Agression"?

Whenever I hear that it always makes me laugh!

190 posted on 01/06/2006 1:44:34 PM PST by SunnyUsa (No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.)
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To: Froufrou
If that's the way they felt about it, then they should have made a national ruling that none of the confederate presidents or generals names should be on any of the schools. Lee is no more and no less a symbol of the Confederacy than the flag.

They also shouldn't have named Army posts after Confederates. Ft. Lee, Ft. Hood, Ft. Bragg, to name just a few.

191 posted on 01/06/2006 1:46:19 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: CharacterCounts

Imagine their surprise when they went to work in industrial America making hot dogs...one man's hell is another's heaven...


192 posted on 01/06/2006 1:48:26 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: stainlessbanner

There's a school system just south of Austin,TX in Hayes county that, I believe, still uses the Confederate flag as their school colors. ( the Rebels ) I think there was a school in Austin that use to have the Rebel flag but, was pressured into changeing. Maybe some Austin FReepers can help me out?


193 posted on 01/06/2006 1:48:28 PM PST by wolfcreek
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To: Casloy

"The confederate flag has nothing to do with Heritage."

That's right, a flag that people's ancestors fought under, which they revere for that reason, they had nothing to do with heritage. Just as our city taking the Battle Flag out of the city seal and replacing it with the 3rd National Flag (which still had the battle flag in it) was somehow not motivated out of respect for history.


194 posted on 01/06/2006 1:48:36 PM PST by AzaleaCity5691 (The enemy lies in the heart of Gadsden)
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To: durasell
When I wore my General Sherman "I'm Marching To the Beach" T-shirt. I got dirty looks down south.

Do tell?

195 posted on 01/06/2006 1:49:22 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: El Gato

That's right. Since the Confederacy was defeated, erase all reminder of it. We don't have Hitler High, do we?


196 posted on 01/06/2006 1:50:08 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: wolfcreek

Robert E. Lee in San Antonio was forced to removed the flag around 1990. The colors are still red and gray.


197 posted on 01/06/2006 1:52:33 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
I wouldn't go so far as to say he achieved his goal; I haven't read the book and don't plan to. You?

I have read extended excerpts, then gone to the original sources to read quotations in context. Based on this, I see no need to subject myself to readind his entire book. Let us say that his objectivity as a historian leaves much to be desired.

198 posted on 01/06/2006 1:53:21 PM PST by LexBaird ("I'm not questioning your patriotism, I'm answering your treason."--JennysCool)
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To: blaquebyrd

You're wasting your time trying to convince these guys that the Confederate flag is anything other than a symbol of all the was once good about America.

Ask them this: Would it be OK for my daughter to go to this same school wearing a shirt that says:

"My great-granfather was a Confederate, thus I am a descendent an American traitor; no different than my hero John Kerry."


199 posted on 01/06/2006 1:54:16 PM PST by Diplomat
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To: stainlessbanner

I rarely agree with you on these issues, but this principal is a douchbag. Does she do the same thing with black folks who wear the black, white and green Black Power colors?


200 posted on 01/06/2006 1:54:42 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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