Civil war erupts over Confederate handbags

DFW ^ | January 6, 2006 | JIM DOUGLAS

[stainlessbanner]

BURLESON — Two North Texas high school students who were kicked out of class for displaying rebel flags vow to take their fight to court. They said they are proud of their heritage, but Burleson High School education officials maintain the Confederate symbol is offensive.

Ashley Thomas remembered how it all started. "Principal comes up and says, 'You've got to get rid of your purse... it's racist."

Ashley and Aubrie McAllum both received purses patterened after the Confederate battle flag from their parents for Christmas. Both girls decided to take their presents to school.

"I don't have 'KKK' written on me or anything; it's just a purse," Aubrie said. "Doesn't have anything to do with what color you are."

The students were asked to leave their purses with the principal; they elected to leave school after calling their parents.

Ashley was sent home three times this week. "I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said. "I want to keep going to school and get my education, but this is my life. I was born and raised in the South. Why is the flag so bad?"

Here's the answer, from Burleson ISD spokesman Richard Crummel: "It's a violation of the dress code," he said. "We don't want students to wear anything that might cause a disruption, and that symbol has done that in the past."

"Then that's a heritage violation on her, on me... on all of us," said Aubrie's father, Rick McAllum. "So we can push it."

McAllum belongs to the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Ashley's mom, Joni Thomas, is from New York. But the parents of both girls praised their daughters, and vowed to fight.

"I'm hiring a lawyer," Thomas said. "I'm going all the way with it, because I think it's wrong."

Burleson High School, with a 2,200 student enrollment, is about 90 percent white, 8 or 9 percent Hispanic. There are very few African Americans.

"We want to be sensitive to everyone; make it comfortable in school for all our students," Crummel said.

Both girls said they have never been in trouble and don't want trouble now.

But they don't want to back down, either.

School officials know controversy often follows the Confederate flag, and they will not let it in.

The girls as of Friday, decided to go back to school

[SauronOfMordor]

So you think the slaves would have rather continued to work for free vs earning a paycheck.

A number of them may have seen their standard of living fall when they were free

Keep in mind that a slave was a capital asset, and as such slave owners tended to ensure they were fed well enough to stay healthy and productive. During slavery days, the dangerous and unhealthy jobs were done by Irish immigrants -- if one got killed or disabled, there was always a replacement available for hire

[processing please hold]

I'm referring to Stonewall,

I agree.

Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson Bringing up the rear of the sculpted group is "Stonewall" Jackson, the hero of the Valley campaign who died as a result of accidental gunfire from his own troops after the Battle of Chancellorsville. Jackson, because of his great successes and subsequent death in the field, was probably the most admired and worshipped of the Confederate generals behind Robert E. Lee. His great successes in the Valley, Fredericksburg, and Second Mannassas in the face of what seemed to be insurmountable odds gave the general a reputation as a master strategist and motivator of men.

[AzaleaCity5691]

It's not OK to offend anyone, but for the most part, I think people overblow the significance of this. My son was one of those people who put a Naval Jack on his class ring, and most of the blacks he knew had no problem with it. In Mississippi, a majority of the black population voted to keep the old flag. Whether or not a flag is displayed has little or nothing to do with anything. And I'm not being hypocritical, you're just misunderstanding what I'm saying, as it's complex. But for some reason, I doubt that anyone wears a Confederate flag into a school where a lot of people would be offended, for the same reason as the anti-Southern example, schoolyard justice.

You have to understand, there is a balance to be maintained between being respectful to people, maintaining proper social mores' of conduct, and being able to express yourself however you see fit. It's a hard balance to strike and it's not always a clear line.

[PMCarey]

While it doesn't have any real practical application today, he is, technically, correct. A peace treaty was never signed.

Why would the Union sign a peace treaty with a rebellion? Peace treaties are only signed between sovereign parties; but the Union never recognized the confederacy as a sovereign nation.

[SauronOfMordor]

I have no doubt slavery would have ended eventually, but I seriously doubt it would have been a result of pressure from imigrants.

Slavery was only economicly viable when land is essentially free. A slave would only work as hard as he had to. A free man working his own land would be much more productive, and could bid a higher price for land

[Froufrou]

"The real question is why the South never tried to develop their own domestic textile industry. Or any other significant manufacturing, for that matter. One of the main reasons the South lost was the inability to manufacture the goods needed in the face of the blockade."

Like weapons. I've wondered about the lack of factories, too. But the fact is that farms today are often even larger than plantations were. Where I live, the northside has higher taxes and more jobs because the southside has the better farmland. They complain that their side of town is underrated and gets less improvements.

Wouldn't cotton and tobacco be easier to load and haul via ship? Would they then be more frequent exports than whale oil and metal.

[SauronOfMordor]

The real question is why the South never tried to develop their own domestic textile industry. Or any other significant manufacturing, for that matter.

Would YOU want to be in a factory in Georgia in August without air conditioning?

[Diplomat]

You have to understand, there is a balance to be maintained between being respectful to people, maintaining proper social mores' of conduct, and being able to express yourself however you see fit. It's a hard balance to strike and it's not always a clear line.

Which is exactly the reason this school did what it did. It doesn't want to have clothing problems interferring with the students education. This school decided the balance would be best served by banning the confederate flag. This way, when the time comes for them to ban my suggested t-shirt, or a black panther t-shirt, or a Bush = hitler t-shirt, the school will be doing what it was always trying to do, minimize student conflict.

I don't accept that this issue is complex. It's only complex to those who are absolutely unwilling to place themselves in another person's shoes.

[stand watie]

about 95% of the soldiers,sailors & marines who served the TRUE CAUSE of dixie LIBERTY had GROSS ASSETS of LESS than TWENTY-FIVE DOLLARS ($25.00) in 1861.

ours was a PEASANT REVOLT against the OPPRESSION by the northern industrial/social/monied elites, led by a HANDFUL of professionals like LEE, STUART,JACKSON, et.al.

our "barefooted, hungry lads in tattered gray rags" had NOTHING in excess except VALOR & DEDICATION. in the end, those things were not enough to overcome the northern leviathan.

free dixie,sw

[El Gato]

My great-granfather was a Confederate, thus I am a descendent an American traitor; no different than my hero John Kerry."

That was a different time. Most people did not consider themselves so much as U.S. Citizens as Citizens of their state. Both north and south. Although the north had far more recent immigrants (although there were Irish units on both sides, even at the same battle). The states did not just rebel and take up arms against the national government. They formally seceded first. After secession they were, at least in their own lights, no longer US citizens, and thus they could not be traitors. These secession were in every case formal acts of legitimately elected legislatures.

Lee, for example, was severely chided by many Texas officers, for not declaring for the Confederacy (Lee was then serving in San Antonio) until his home state of Virginia formally seceded from the Union. Lincoln had in the interim asked Lee to take command of Union forces. Lee put him off until the Virginia legislature could make it's decision. When the war was lost on Lee's front, and he surrendered to Grant at Appomattox, he was not clapped in irons, but was allowed to go, and to keep his horse. Of course by then his home lands had been taken by the union forces. Today his place, actually it was from his wife's family, is known as Arlington National Cemetery.

[LexBaird]

Would YOU want to be in a factory in Georgia in August without air conditioning?

No, but then I wouldn't want to be picking cotton in a Georgia field in August, either. That didn't stop the weathy Georgians from buying people and forcing them to do it.

[Froufrou]

1837 The Panic of 1837 was a severe setback to the nascent state bank and to several ambitious programs of public improvements, including the Clinton-Kalamazoo Canal
1838 Patriot War
1840 Douglass Houghton reported finding copper deposits on the Keweenaw Peninsula.
1846 Marji-Gesick, an Ojibwa Indian, pointed out a large deposit of iron ore to prospector Philo Everett near the present-day city of Negaunee.
1847 A law was passed by the State Legislature to re-locate the state capital from Detroit to a site "in the township of Lansing, in the county of Ingham."
1855 Michigan State University is founded as the Agricultural College of the State of Michigan, becoming the first land grant university in the United States.
1879 New State Capitol dedicated in Lansing. The structure cost $1,510,130.
1890s and 1900s Ford, Chrysler and General Motors were founded in southeastern Michigan.
1937 Flint Sit-Down Strike ended with official recognition of the United Auto Workers by General Motors.
1943 Riot broke out pitting whites against blacks during wartime.
1957 Five-mile long Mackinac Bridge opened November 1.
1967 Race riots struck the city of Detroit. After 5 days of rioting, 43 people lay dead, 1189 injured and over 7000 people had been arrested. The riot had lasting effects on the entire metro region and is usually cited as one of the reasons the Detroit area is among the most segregated areas in the United States.
1974 Gerald R. Ford of Grand Rapids became the 38th President of the United States.
1987 Michigan celebrated 150 years of statehood.
2002 Michigan elects its first woman governor, Jennifer Granholm (D).

---

Michigan as a haven of integration?! That picture was some 4-5 decades after the war. The fact that there aren't any blacks pictured is perhaps not very flattering for MI. [see 1943 above, and several entries later.]

[Froufrou]

"A free man working his own land would be much more productive, and could bid a higher price for land"

With what money? We're talking 40 acres and a mule here, that's it.

[dpa5923]

No apology needed. I shouldn't have been so short and I am sorry if I came off a bit snooty.

[Termite_Commander]

No, not at all. Don't worry about it.

[LexBaird]

our "barefooted, hungry lads in tattered gray rags" had NOTHING in excess except VALOR & DEDICATION.

Our chief weapon is VALOR...VALOR and DEDICATION...DEDICATION and VALOR.... Our two weapons are VALOR and DEDICATION...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are VALOR, DEDICATION, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as VALOR, DEDICATION,.... I'll come in again.

(yes, I am mocking you)

[Froufrou]

So you find it amusing that northern soldiers raped southern women and burned Atlanta? No wonder you watch the Beverly Hillbillies.

[Froufrou]

You're like saying someone is 'a little bit pregnant.' If they want no mention of the Confederacy, why stop at a stupid purse?

OTOH, if they want to control student dress code, WHY STOP AT A STUPID PURSE?

That's exactly why the dad has a good chance of winning. The girls didn't violate any district dress code.

Duh.

[Diplomat]

"They formally seceded first"

Unfortunately for them, they never legally seperated. Thus, they were defacto traitors to the country they no longer considered themselves to be a part of.

As you assert, the military back then was still operating under the original design of the Constitution. Everything was organized individually by the States themselves, into state militias. Hence, nearly every unit that fought on both sides of the war had their state of origin in their name. This decentralized military is probably one of the reasons why the war got so bloody as they were no integrated (not black-white, I mean between States) units in the military and it was extremely difficult for each side to accept or even acknowledge the legitimate differences and problems that did exist in the country between the different states.

This country today would be screwed if the South wasn't still a part of us. This is why I'm most glad they lost.

[El Gato]

Ok, so can you understand the anger of Blacks toward that flag your ancestors fought under?

You do know that there were Blacks who fought under that banner as well. There's even a society for descendants of Black Confederates. They aren't angry toward that flag.

That was the battle flag anyway. The formal national flag of the Confederate States of America was different. The Naval ensign was similar to the battle flag, and in fact the flags that are sometimes seen today are more like that navel ensign than the square Battle Flag that the Army of Norther Virginia (among others) fought under.

This was the first national flag of the Confederacy:

http://www.confederateflags.org/images/SBVicks.gif

This was the second, which as you can see did incorporate the battle flag motif.

And this was the final one

(In searching for the information at that first link, I found this on, on Lee's "body servant", Rev. William Mack Lee who had been a preacher before the war started. He had been a slave on Lee's family lands, but all Lee's slaves were freed 10 years before the war began. He was still alive in 1918, with eight daughters ,twenty-one grand children and eight great-grand children, as of that year. It's an interesting little vignette.