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Making Islam illegal -- is it the West's only choice?
Renew America ^ | 2/19/2006 | Warner Todd Huston

Posted on 02/20/2006 7:46:11 AM PST by Dark Skies

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To: USF

But you see it took the belief of the Son of God for the New Testament to take hold. All it would take is the belief of a Son of Allah. Remember, before the New Testament, God said put no other gods before me. It took a few deciples to convince people that Jesus was the Son of God. Many Christans were put to death over it but it finaly took hold.


461 posted on 02/20/2006 11:14:06 AM PST by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: sakic
Cultural suicide is not a constitutional virtue.

Atheists have been hell bent on destroying this nation for over sixty years. I suppose one shouldn't be suprised that they would welcome Muslim extremists as brothers in arms.

462 posted on 02/20/2006 11:14:45 AM PST by JCEccles
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To: MineralMan
The same amount as was created with Christian technology. Technology is not really a religions thing.

Point conceded.

However, I can't help but notice that Western Civilization is a much friendlier environment for innovation than a "culture" in which everything is "allah's will" and changing an old bad way would be viewed as an act of apostasy.

463 posted on 02/20/2006 11:15:21 AM PST by null and void (That 12 jurors can overturn the leviathan of "The Law" strikes fear into statists across this nation)
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To: MineralMan

Hrmpt,
Smartazz. :)


464 posted on 02/20/2006 11:15:22 AM PST by najida (Me arguing for logic and against emotion is like Mother Teresa becoming a pole dancer.)
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To: Melas

"And yet we don't read about you exterminating muslims in your spare time."

Indeed. It's pretty much one of those "Let's you and him fight" things, isn't it.

In the meantime, our troops are over there in Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting the terrorists and helping the Iraqis and Afghanis establish a rational government...more like the one Turkey has had for many decades.

So, the troops are killing those that need killing, and helping those that need helping. That's action. The rest is rhetoric.


465 posted on 02/20/2006 11:15:40 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
In our nation of some 300+ million people, there MAY be 5 million Muslims. I think our laws can deal with that pretty well.

It appears that 10% is about the tipping point for violence. At 10%, there are usually areas where it's 50% muslim, and those areas become unsafe for others. This is what's happening in both Europe and Australia. They are a fast growing minority. The point being made is that we cannot let them become a sizable minority, or we will have demands for us to assimilate to them. Like giving up our free speech rights to avoid their wrath.

466 posted on 02/20/2006 11:15:42 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: Auntie Dem
Islam is a cancer that must be excised before it kills its host.

Change Islam to Judaism in your statement and what famous leader no longer with us pops into mind? It's almost word for word.

467 posted on 02/20/2006 11:16:05 AM PST by sakic
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To: steelcurtain
Criminal actions are punishable in this country...

This country made membership (you were likely to have an FBI tail for just belonging) in the mafia a crime because of their criminal actions. Why should islam be any different?

468 posted on 02/20/2006 11:16:25 AM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: null and void
Give them time...

see post 455, times up.

469 posted on 02/20/2006 11:16:59 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

Well said, complete agreement.


470 posted on 02/20/2006 11:17:26 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: najida
"There is no doubt in my mind that I'm one of the first ones they would kill if they could. So I do agree is that change needs to happen. All I'm arguing against is emotion driven hate."

If there was going to be emotion driven hate it would already have happened. People were more upset by 9/11 then anything else I have seen in my lifetime. The restraint by the Americans has been phenomenal don't you think?

The only thing we did in response was go after a very bad man to free Iraqis. But....if our freedoms are taken away there will be new laws made to protect us from Islam and people of the Muslim faith may come under more scrutiny before they can come to our shores.

471 posted on 02/20/2006 11:18:04 AM PST by Earthdweller ("West to Islam" Cake. Butter your liberals, slowly cook France, stir in Europe then watch it rise.)
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To: Auntie Dem

Wrong. Being a member of a crime family has never been a criminal offense. Criminal actions that members of crime families are criminal offenses. No one has EVER been tried for being a member of the mafia, EVER.


472 posted on 02/20/2006 11:18:49 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: Auntie Dem
This country made membership (you were likely to have an FBI tail for just belonging) in the mafia a crime because of their criminal actions. Why should islam be any different?

La Cosa Nostra is not a religion. Islam is, albeit a sick one. The First Amendment doesn't distinguish between religions we like and ones with which we disagree.

473 posted on 02/20/2006 11:18:51 AM PST by steelcurtain
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
And when President Hillary Clinton orders evangelical Christian churches outlawed under the guise of "enforcing sedition laws they way they were meant to be enforced," I take it you'd be just peachy-keen with that, especially when Janet Reno calls in the tanks.

And exactly when did the Branch Davidians call for the forcible overthrow of the government? This is a red-herring argument.

If the laws had been enforced as intended, Waco would never have made national news.

474 posted on 02/20/2006 11:19:29 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: Wombat101
Islam is not a religion. It is thought control on an extent that has Mao and Lenin
slapping their palms to forehead (in the depths of Hell) and wondering
why THEY didn't think of it.


Bulls-eye!

I recently finished reading "Mao, The Untold Story".
There is mention of an Italian (priest?) that visited China.
Mao sought him out and "picked his brain" for a long time.
Mao was trying to get the secret of how The Catholic Church (and Pope)
could maintain such amazing dedication from it's far-flung adherents.
You could see that Mao was envious of that sort of ability to
motivate and get action out of people.

My feeling, especially after seeing "Muhammad: Legacy of A Prophet" is that
Islam is just a Bushido code developed to help a group survive and thrive
in a harsh region like the Arabian Peninsula.
Muhammad just had the wisdom to get ahead by sleeping with his boss
(the older woman he'd worked for), killing public critics, letting
his minions keep 4/5 of the loot, and making s-e-x plentiful in
this life and the next.
And wrapping it in a coating of religiosity.
475 posted on 02/20/2006 11:19:48 AM PST by VOA
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To: MineralMan

three are law in the united states. Three.

I wasn't aware that
there are three left.

Take me back to the days of Thou Shalt Not Covet thy Neighbors Wife.At least it still exists where we live.If I didn't follow that one I would be opening a ,,,let's just say I might as well expect retribution.

We got laws like,,do not cross yellow line.


476 posted on 02/20/2006 11:19:54 AM PST by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Melas

"So let me get this straight: There is a muslim school that I pass on my way to work all the time. It's the Brighter Horizons academy in Garland, Texas if you want to look it up. I see children playing out in the playground there all the time as I drive past it. Are you seriously advocating that we murder these children? If so, then you're no part of a human being."




I'll tell you what, Melas: You let me know if anybody goes to that school and threatens to kill those Muslim children. I'll pack up my firearms and head down there and stand with you to protect them.

Buncha cretins talking tough...feh!


477 posted on 02/20/2006 11:20:06 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: JamesP81
JamesP81 writes:
we aren't getting these guys for their religion; we're getting them because they're the badguys.

James, they are badguys BECAUSE of "their religion".

Their "religion" is _more_ than mere religion, as we of The West regard religion to be. It is an all-encompassing theocracy which seeks to control not only one's religious beliefs, but worldly behavior. And it tolerates NO non-believers or dissenters.

One of the most famous dictums of The Bible is the refrain that we must "render unto Caesar what is Caesars, and unto God that which is God's". This makes a clear distinction between our material world of existence, and the afterworld promised to come.

Islam MAKES NO SUCH DISTINCTION. To Islam, the world of "Caeser" (read: "Mohammed", the worldly prophet) and "God" are inseparable, one and the same. To live under Islam is to live under Mohammmed. It's his way or "the highway". But - there is no highway in Islam. What do they do with dissenters and openly displayed symbols of Christianity in Saudi Arabia?

So long as Islam exists, there are going to be more and more of your "badguys". And hundreds of millions who either openly support them or, silently, accede.

- John

478 posted on 02/20/2006 11:20:22 AM PST by Fishrrman
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To: Lochlainnach
You can't outlaw a religion

This is getting tiresome - please Google 'Shinto' to read a little bit about US precedent dealing with a religion masquerading as a government engaged in war against the US.

Hint: the issue isn't about religious belief - it's about the primacy of the Constitution. Guess which one comes out on top?

479 posted on 02/20/2006 11:20:31 AM PST by lemura
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To: eastforker

"The only way Islam can continue is for a new Islamist Prophet to come on the scene and denounce this violence."

That, unfortunately, is impossible. According to the Koran, Mohammed was the last prophet. There will be no more.

The second reason as to why it isn't possible is the nature of Islam itself; Islam is the only major 'religion' in which self-improvement is NOT an either implicitly stated objective for the believer, nor is it even implied.

I'll give ya an explanation of what I mean; In Judeo-Christianity there is a belief in a Savior who will either a) come and usher in an age of peace or b) will return to do the same. Inherent in that belief is an idea that it is the duty of the individual believer to not only prepare (spiritually)for that day, but to make an effort to make the world a better place (in terms of civilized, humane society) than it currently is. It is one of the driving forces behind innovation; the thought that something might exist beyond the present.

Therefore, Judaism and Christianity are inherently FORWARD-LOOKING religions. The believer has something to dream about beyond his daily drudgery, and a responsibility to that futre world.

Islam, on the other hand, has nothing of the sort. To a Muslim, the greatest event in the history of mankind HAS ALREADY OCCURRED (Mohammed ascended into heaven). There IS no future. There is only the fulfilment of 'prophecy' (i.e the Koran and it's plan for world domination), as the "Prophet" commanded.

It is one of the reasons why the Middle East has been (psychologically) mired in the 7th century. There literally is no tomorrow for them, and with that thought goes all impetus for scientific inquiry, philosophical arguments, progressive forms of government, etc. Anything of that nature tends to direct one away from the fulfilment of the Prophet's prophecy. Hence, Khomeini's pronouncement of America as the Great Satan.

Satan does not have the same connotation in Islam as it does in Judeo-Christianity. Satan is not the embodiment of evil ,rather, he is the huckster and trickster that deceives and lures the true believer from the proper path.

When fundamentalists rail against western society, what they really hate is the outward, material signs of it that tend to deal with distraction and seduction or that which can give the impression that there is a viable (and perhaps more rewarding) system (either of government, ethics or life) than Islam. It is why the first targets of Islamic nutjobs happen to be the cinema, televsion and radio (especially MTV variants), print, and other means of communication with the OUTSIDE world. The Fundamentalists are more than happy to welcome such western "weapons of mass deception" when they prove useful to controlling their own masses in an Islamically-approved way(case in point, Al Jazeera).

Until the typical "Muslim in the Street" can be educated in the westrn tradition (i.e. based upon Judeo-Christian notions of the future and personal responsibility to community) and the means exist by which that typical Muslim can translate and communicate this cultural change, there will be no reformation of Islam. The means and methods by which these would be achieved, are both anethema to anything "Islamic", and are tainted for having been created by "infidels".


480 posted on 02/20/2006 11:20:54 AM PST by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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