Posted on 04/24/2006 4:24:45 PM PDT by HEMICRASHBOX
This is great news, I am glad Blacks are willing to speak out, I know exactly what they mean when they say their children can't get jobs unless they speak Spanish, we have dealt with that on the border for years. My girls had a hard time finding a job where they were not required to speak Spanish.
I did see a few articles where people did try to tell people the illegals were coming in to take those jobs, and even local officials tried to speak out against it. The media would not report the truth and the support wasn't there when they needed it.
My brother was in New Orleans when construction started, many of the contractors hired illegals and brought them with them. The majority of those jobs were never offered to locals. I posted that on this site, and no one would believe it, they chose to follow the media in saying the locals would not do those jobs.
I know first hand what Mexico is like, not only on immigration issues, but most issues. Mexico is not PC in any way, shape, or form. Mexico has no sense of humor and prosecutes to the fullest extent any foreigner who so much as sneezes wrong. They have no real justice system in reality you deal with whatever official you happen to be dealing with. Odds are very good you will not even get a trial. If you are imprisoned or even shot by an official, there is no repercussion unless you happen to have important connections in Mexico. If there are any bleeding hearts in Mexico they are kept silenced.
Knowing this, I get really ticked when a Mexican official chooses to lecture us on our treatment of illegals in this country, or tries to tell us we can't build a fence, enforce our immigration laws, or create new laws.
Somehow, I don't believe we've seen the last of the word "de-facto". It sounds like someone's been brainstorming down at the old Republican National Committee to come up with a new 'politically correct' catch phrase for illegal immigration that the pro-open borders crowd in the Republican Party can call their own.
Here's some more suggestions for the Liberal use of the word "defacto"
MURDER: "De-facto" execution.
RAPIST: "De-facto" gynecologist.
ROBBERY: "De-facto" change of ownership.
VOTE FRAUD: "De-facto" exercising of a citizen's legal right to vote.
As always, thanks for the laughs, Ben.
LOL!
Illegals have always been given a defacto legal status. If that can make it past the capture zone, arrive at their final destination, get a job, keep their nose clean, and stay in the shadows, they will be allowed to stay. If there are women and children involved, they will be entitled to certain benefits.
If they contribute to society, society will accept or tolerate them.
A surprisingly large number of them go on to become citizens.
There can be an exception to the defacto legal status. During recessions, they are blamed for the recession and taking jobs. Many will call for their deportation.
Once the recession has ended, the economy starts cookin', and workers are needed, all is forgiven, and everyone says "we need more mexicans".
What part of defacto legal status don't you understand?
What part of illegal don't you understand?
I don't make the rules of, or organize society. If you want to blame for the ways things are, thats ok. People like you always have to blame someone.
There is, however, no agreement as to what is the best solution to the problem.
They are here illegally despite your nonsense and MOST people do not want them here illegally. If they go through the legal immigration process that's quite another thing but most are in no position to do that. They are, simply, criminals.
Were they immigrating illegally into Mexico they would get far harsher treatment under the laws of that country yet that countries leaders are badgering the US to offer all sorts of "preferential citizenship status" to those illegals when Mexico itself would do nothing of the sort.
You can read about (and become informed of) Mexico's immigration policies.
Actually, wouldn't the logical solution be reciprocity between Mexico and the US since Sauce for the Goose is Sauce for the Gander?
The "blame" is - and should be - on the US government and it's politicians who are so touchy-feely it is unbelievable. Those coming here to work mostly do not wish to become Americans and most haven't the common sense (or the decency) to even make a servious attempt to learn (and use in everyday life) the English language and many are very poorly educated and some are fleeing justice in their home country. There's no reason to believe that these sorts of "illegal immigrants" are going to become model (or even productive) citizens. Instead they'll merely help trash our country as they've trashed land on both sides of the border - but especially the US side - by strewing castoffs of all types in what had been relatively trash-free public (or private) land. Why do you think, for example, that state park rangers in public land areas near the "immigration/coyote trails" now carry 9mm handguns as part of their uniform? Less than a generation ago, that was not needed ... or even considered.
Semantics.
If there are large numbers of illegals in the country today, and there heve been illegals in the country for many, many, many years, and they live an open life, often involved in the community, often welcomed into the community, and I can, and have, observed this with my own eyes since the 40s, then, after these facts, defacto, they obviously have some status.
One example, if you are not for deportation, then you are for illegals.
The issue of a guest worker program is separate from the issue of illegal aliens. If illegal aliens take jobs from Americans (and they do) they take even more jobs from foreign nationals who apply by the legal route to work here and wait years for the chance. Illegal aliens steal that chance from them.
They are different groups of people, regardless of their country of origin, and the political issues that concern them are different in their effects and needs. Confusing the two may be lethal to our society, economy and sovereignty.
We already have a guest worker program, which may indeed need to be reformed. But illegal aliens are those who have not applied to be guest workers. There are 11 million of them by some estimates, 20 million by others. The only thing needing reform concerning illegal aliens is to enforce the existing laws respecting their presence and their employment here. Our sovereignty and rule-of-law demand it.
Border security is the number one problem in this debate. The flood of illegal aliens is a major factor in relation to our lack of border security but it is only one factor. There is also a matter of national security in a time of war and in an age when terrorists have set their sights on inflicting mass destruction on our society.
After the issues of border security and millions of illegal foreign nationals on our soil the matter of guest workers is very small in comparison. Until the first two problems are thoroughly and firmly addressed the guest worker issue should not even be discussed.
The President and the Senate need to get that message with unambiguous resolve.
The best methods to control the border have been studied and debated for a long time now. There are many good ideas and proven solutions. What is lacking is only the will to do it. The cost of controlling our borders will be insignificant compared to the price we will pay, both in security and economy, if we do not.
It would be nice to help everyone in the world lift themselves up out of poverty. But we cannot take that responsibility upon ourselves especially if we ignore our own welfare to the point that we are no longer prosperous.
Other nations of the world have an obligation to help their citizens every bit as much as we have to help ours. It is one thing to help other nations prosper it is quite another to relieve them of their own responsibilities. Beyond that it is simply not realistic to think that poverty can be ended around the world. We still have some in this great nation.
We must stop pandering to American employers who criminally employ illegal foreign nationals. Dry up the jobs and illegal foreign nationals will go home. Home where they can do what they must to put their house in order just as we must put ours in order.
Surely they do ... and that status is "illegal alien" and it will not change unless they go through the process of becoming a legal immigrant under the laws of this country - nor should it.
This is not a conversation about whether the people involved have red hair or black, have good teeth or bad, have body odor or not, whether they're "welcomed" or not or respected or not ... nor anything else. It is about whether they are here illegally or not (PERIOD).
The term "de facto" is correctly two words in the dictionary I use but - since you seem to "think different" perhaps is is spelled differently and even means something else in yours.
That almost sounds as though favor amnesty for those who have broken the immigration laws ... in fact, flaunt them continually by bringing their relatives to enjoy the "good life" too.
I don't.
This is the problem - they are ignoring us, apparently on purpose.
There are a lot of good ideas here, lots of wise citizens who understand exactly what needs to be done to save this country.
I never thought I'd see the day when we'd be represented almost entirely by a herd of gutless wimps. It's sickening.
If such a program were that generous it sounds more nearly like you would be favoring illegal immigration. The guest worker programs to date haven't been notably successful - if fact, quite the contrary - and turn into a method of bringing people into the country who never leave and become - guess what???
... but we are and if you sit down nose-to-nose with them for a talk as I've done you quickly discover that they truly ARE gutless and poorly informed about not only this issue but something like the FairTax as well.
The FairTax BTW would go a long way toward making this country less of an illegal immigration target since those here legally or not would pay the tax when they purchased taxable things (and would not be eligible for the prebate).
After two weeks on the job, the men were fired by employers who told them "the Mexicans had arrived" and were willing to work for lower wages. The U.S. citizens had been promised $10 an hour, but the employers preferred Mexicans who would work for less.
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