Posted on 04/27/2006 11:21:18 AM PDT by John Geyer
Edited on 04/27/2006 11:47:26 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
I would assume that ethanol, being produced by fermenting American grown corn into a useable fuel, would make gas cheaper, not more expensive. Instead of making the price of gas rise, I would believe that it would fall because we are using a renewable, home grown form of fuel. I guess I'm an idiot for not understanding the reasons behind this, but I ask for someone with more experience to explain it for me. I was telling my father how ethanol would make gas cheaper, and now I feel like a complete moron. Help me understand.
What you have failed to take into consideration is the DDGs (Dried Distillers Grains)which are used for livestock feed and have considerable value.
Originally, corn was grown as a feedstuff for livestock. Modern day science has shown us the way to separate the starches to use for distilling purposes, and still retain the protein for feedstuffs. DDGs are a byproduct of Ethanol, and are an excellent feedstuff.
Farmers are going to grow the corn, one way or another, as feedstuff for livestock. This new process simply removesthe starches to produce Ethanol before feeding the remainder to livestock.
We cannot figure the cost of production into BOTH ethanol and feed. Unless you assign one half (or another percentage) the cost of production to each.
In an internal combustion engine, the lower heat content of alcohol can be offset by certain advantages in its combustion properties. Alcohol is less volatile than gasoline, so the timing can be advanced and the stroke can be lengthened. Its lower volatility gives it a much higher octane rating (denatured alcohol has an octane rating of 113, as I recall), which means that it can power a much higher compression engine. Its latent temperature of evaporation makes it ideal as a fuel in a supercharged engine.
The current problem with alcohol as a fuel is that engines which are tuned for gasoline will run on alcohol, just with a loss of economy. Low octane gasoline won't run worth a hoot in an engine tuned for alcohol.
Er, Empirical
Hmmm. Doesn't seem to work on anything else.
BINGO!
Because they can.
Don't buy it. Adam Smith and Alfred Marshall can explain the concept to you.
Do you have a link to this article? In their issue "The Truth about Biofuels", they report that "Cynics claim that it takes more energy to grow corn and distill it into alcohol than you can get out of the alcohol. However, according to the DOE, the growing, fermenting and distillation chain actually results in a surplus of energy that ranges from 34 to 66 percent." It seems that that includes these other costs.
This ethanol mandate is economically stupid because it greatly increasese the cost of gasoline with virtually no benefit to our nation in energy independence. The right way to become more energy independent is to produce more oil and gasoline domestically and develop more fuel-efficient engines and lighter vehicles. The main result of this ethanol mandate is to boost the profits of agri-business at the expense of the American consumer. This is another stupid, costly idea forced on the American people by a corrupt US congress.
If I earned 5% on my investment, and it increased 50%, my return would be 7.5%.
What was their return on sales revenue? 9.5%. Now look at other industry's returns on sales revenues.
your 1.5 liters of 100 proof is only 50% ETOH by volume,
the rest is water.
While we do all this, the corn which was feeding the cows and chickens from which Mickey D's feeds half the population; will run out of burgers and strips!
To make alcohol you need to heat the mash to the whopping temp of 173 degrees. All around America is industrial and power plants which generate heat at or greater than 173 that has to use cooling ponds or towers to lose their heat.
According to one study. An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. Now that same study predicted that the farmer used 140 gallons per acre to harvest but that is bull. We used to grow corn and you would have to have an oil tanker to grow 30 acres at 140 gallons. Five to ten gallons at most per acre.
Besides most farmers use diesel instead of gasoline or ethanol for their tractors and the cost for growing and harvesting is going to happen if the stuff is grown for fuel or for feed. Most of the mash not used for fuel will be sold for animal feed.
It has some problems like transportation costs but it isn't unfeasible.
Agreed. Same goes for crude.
Wake me up when it's a two YEAR low.
It just highlights how cheap gasoline really is (even now) when compared to other energy sources. Some just don't like to look at the facts.
That cost figure assumes no cost for the still/grinder, etc and free energy to run it, from the best I can tell. It also assumes that you can buy corn at the same price ADM can.
Hmmm.. I wonder if there are any reductions in methane emissions from livestock if the grain is processed first. :)
In the present market, the price of ethanol has nothing to do with its cost of production. Ethanol's price moves in sympathy with the cost of gasoline and then is bumped up by the federal (and any local) tax incentives. (The wholesale price of ethanol exceeds the retail price because the blender receives a tax credit against the fuel tax on gasoline). The production of fuel ethanol is hugely profitable right now, which drives the expansion we're now seeing, which, in turn, will eventually cause its price to moderate.
The subsidies on both ethanol and gasoline only serve to distort the market and are lousy ideas.
I averaged 6 gallons of fuel per acre for field trips last year on my corn acres.
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