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Moussaoui Will Never Rot in Prison
Wall Street Journal ^ | 5/5/06 | DANIEL HENNINGER

Posted on 05/05/2006 4:24:36 AM PDT by mathprof

Need an antidote to the Moussaoui verdict? Go out this weekend to see "United 93."

Zacarias Moussaoui is lucky the jurors at his sentencing trial weren't allowed to see the movie "United 93" the day before reaching a verdict. If they had, rather than handing him life in prison, it is likely that one or more of the jurors would have come out of the box to deliver the death sentence himself -- just as the four doomed men on Flight 93 charged their hijackers to stop its fanatic pilots from flying the airliner into another American building.

Some will say the Moussaoui life sentence merely proves that we in the U.S. are beyond biblical justice, beyond an eye for an eye, even if our Islamic enemies do not bother to claim any grievance larger than resentment to justify the most startling slaughter of innocents all over the world. This argument -- that the refusal to impose the death penalty on Moussaoui shows "we are not like them" -- might have been entertainable before September 11. It may no longer be. [snip]

Our sense of normalcy may not be in our best interest.

As an example, one thought that occurred in the hour after seeing "United 93" had to do with the recent debate in the U.S. over the warrantless wiretapping of suspected phone calls between terrorists. In that hour, this "debate" seemed quite otherworldly. It is unlikely that in the first six months after September 11 Sen. Arlen Specter would ever have thought to intone that the wiretapping program was "in flat violation" of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But he does now. Times change.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 911; moussaui; waronterr
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To: Graybeard58

According to my "in family expert" on prisoners, my brother-in-law, who spent 23 years in prison, there are lots of patriotic cons. One of them will kill him - That's my prediction................Where this guy is going there is no prisoner on prisoner contact.


51 posted on 05/05/2006 5:34:36 AM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: Coop
Ah, I see. So it's all Bush's fault. [yawn]

A decision was made in December 2001 NOT to have ZM examined by a military tribunal and shot.

This despite the fact that, since 9:03 AM on 9/11/01, it was crystal clear that ZM was an enemy soldier making war on the United States, captured out of uniform and behind our lines, making him ineligible for Geneva Convention protection.

In fact, per ex parte Quirin (1942), the military tribunal was not even required. He could have been shot by simple executive order.

If it's NOT Bush's fault that this civil trial farce was allowed to proceed, with its perfectly forseeable outcome, whose fault do you think it is?

52 posted on 05/05/2006 5:38:20 AM PDT by Jim Noble (And you know what I'm talkin' 'bout!)
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To: mathprof

What an embarrassment these jurors are, our face to the world, and typical of US society today.

Thank god for the Americans of United 93, who showed there are still some ordinary Americans with guts.


53 posted on 05/05/2006 5:41:36 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Gorzaloon

Watched O'Riley last night, he had a former inmate of the prison where Moussaoui will be sent to serve his time.
The gentleman says Moussaoui will never be in contact with the other inmates, my heart just fell to the floor.
I was hoping some of the other inmates would be able to get to him, and do the job our justice system failed to do.

Our legal system is rapidly becoming as Europe, weak.
Maybe if the trial could have been transferred to Texas instead of VA., the sentence would have been correctly done.


54 posted on 05/05/2006 5:45:07 AM PDT by buck61
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To: buck61
The gentleman says Moussaoui will never be in contact with the other inmates, my heart just fell to the floor.

Without an audience, and kept isolated long enough, he will find novel uses for his bedsheets...One can hope.

55 posted on 05/05/2006 5:47:07 AM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: Jim Noble
In retrospect, the failure of the administration to execute him in 2001 was an incredible act of cowardice.

===============================================

In retrospect you are remarkably prescient.

56 posted on 05/05/2006 5:53:40 AM PDT by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: rovenstinez
Do we know WHO the jurors were, and which individual worked so hard to convince the rest that LIFE was better than DEATH>?

--------------------------------------------------------

What would YOU do if you did know?

57 posted on 05/05/2006 5:54:55 AM PDT by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: mkjessup

Well put!
so many people here seem to think he's going to a "normal" prison. Florance Colorado ain't no club fed.

I believe he get 3 showers a week not 1.
There was a caller on a local talk show yesterday, who was an ex-guard there, he said large number of prisoners there end up going insane.


58 posted on 05/05/2006 5:55:11 AM PDT by Valin (Purple Fingers Rule!)
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To: Jim Noble

[yawn] ... Hmmm? I'm sorry, I must have dozed off at yet another in a long series of "It's all Bush's fault" ramblings. My sincere ...zz [!]... apologies.


59 posted on 05/05/2006 5:57:11 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: gitmogrunt
At U.S. taxpayer expense,Moussaoui will be become a great holy man and cleric while in prison, converting thousands of ethnically disadvantaged fellow inmates, to become devout followers of fundamental islamic teachings.

Um, no. He will live out his days in solitary confinement. See post #14 for a good description.

60 posted on 05/05/2006 6:01:51 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Jim Noble

france has already started the process based on treaty.

The state department will control this transfer issue and I submit the state department does NOT have the interests of the USA at their core.


61 posted on 05/05/2006 6:03:00 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Gorzaloon
People sometimes die in prison.

And sometimes planes crash.

It's possible that one could crash into a prison, too, I suppose...

62 posted on 05/05/2006 6:03:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: mathprof
With all due respect to the author, maggot Mousse will rot in prison, if he doesn't go insane first. He's going to the Supermax in Florence Co.

And with all due respect to fellow Freepers, He will not be killed by any fellow inmate nor become some Prison Imam converting fellow inmates to Jihad, nor will be be given any of the regular stew-pid stuff we normally hear prisoners are allowed, like cable TV -- not at this place. This joint is the modern day Alcatraz, only worse.

  1. He will be in complete isolation from any human for the rest of his life, except for minimal contact with guards. There is no "General Population".
  2. He will be in in his 7'x12' CONCRETE and soundproof cell 23 hours a day.
  3. His 1 hour of exercise period will also be in an isolated concrete cell - all by his lonesome and IN shackles.
  4. He will never again see the sky or the sun again. This place is 60 feet underground. Any 'natural light' comes though opaque windows / skylights - a nice shade of gray is all he'll ever see again.1
  5. Everything in his cell is made out of concrete, sink toilet and bed. He gets a nice thin mattress to sleep on.
  6. He'll be monitored 24/7 by CCTV
  7. To practice his religion, it will be 'piped in' over that closed circuit TV. No "arrow to Mecca" for him.

This place was built after a Guard at Marion, the previous "Supermax", was killed. Security at Marion was found 'lacking' as there was limited inmate contact. So like with Alcatraz the "G" said, we need to be tougher and Florence was the result.

So no, Mousse will Rot in Prison, or go completely insane.

1 - Wiki says the cell windows "point towards the sky". This contrary to the info I have heard on this matter being its 60' underground.

63 posted on 05/05/2006 6:04:12 AM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: Graybeard58

in supermax he will not have any contact with other people.

He is in virtual solitary.

If he is not insane now, he will be insane in 40 years.


64 posted on 05/05/2006 6:05:16 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Dahoser

LOL! Maybe the best way to bump somebody off is to convince the Clintons that he's their enemy.


65 posted on 05/05/2006 6:11:21 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: Gone GF

never say never

What about McCain? Hitlary? Kerry? Dean? (especially dean)


McCain imagines himself a tactical genius and may think releasing him would be a "good message".

Over time people will forget just as the democrats have intentionally forgotten and how CNN ABC NBC CBS MSNBC no longer allow images of 9/11 to appear. (censorship to help leftists)


66 posted on 05/05/2006 6:12:17 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen
He will be; France won't bother to stick up for this scumbag. Might I also mention that the Joint CIA cooperation center is in Paris---and that the French cooperate far more closely with the US on WOT than even the British? This just doesn't make for sexy headlines...

Help from France Key in Covert Operations

67 posted on 05/05/2006 6:17:26 AM PDT by austinTparty
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To: Valin
...he said large number of prisoners there end up going insane.

That'll be a short trip for this scumbag.

68 posted on 05/05/2006 6:17:53 AM PDT by Recovering Hermit (A hermit is a deserter from the army of humanity.)
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To: mathprof

Can he at least become fetid?


69 posted on 05/05/2006 6:21:18 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Graybeard58
One of them will kill him - That's my prediction.

If he were to be in the general population, that would be possible. My understanding is he will be in lock down in his cell 23 hours a day, with one hour of exercise, all under constant surveillance. He won't be allowed to even make eye contact with other prisoners. Pretty tough for another inmate to kill him if they can't get to him....

70 posted on 05/05/2006 6:23:26 AM PDT by Thermalseeker
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To: Jim Noble

You forgot Hollywood. They'll turn him into their latest cause celebre, declaring him a "political prisoner" who is being "tortured." Forget Mumia. This guy has real marquee value.

The French wouldn't release him right away if they got him. They'd hold him for a few months, then free him to go about his business of killing.


71 posted on 05/05/2006 6:24:04 AM PDT by TBP
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To: Old Grumpy

Hey .......it worked for Jeff Dahmer........maybe this piece of pig-sh*t can get the same roommate.......that way he will get to meet Jesus and ahlah all in the same day!


72 posted on 05/05/2006 6:26:05 AM PDT by newcthem (All along I thought I was an American.......now I find that I am just a racist.)
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To: Valin
"large number of prisoners there end up going insane."

This guy's got a big headstart.

73 posted on 05/05/2006 6:26:50 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: Elsie
And sometimes planes crash.

It's possible that one could crash into a prison, too, I suppose...

Poetic Justice award for THAT idea....

Since he thought everything was so FUNNY, then he should be able to take a joke.

WHERE is Vlad Tepes when we need him?

74 posted on 05/05/2006 6:27:48 AM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: Condor51

There are illustrations in a Washington Post article today which show it aboveground, but the windows are only four inches wide.


75 posted on 05/05/2006 6:28:38 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: austinTparty

I'm sure a lot goes on behind the scenes that isn't reported than I'll ever be able to keep up with.


76 posted on 05/05/2006 6:28:49 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Southern, Conservitive and Proud of it - Hmmm)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen

I call this the Ice Berg war...90% of it is below the surface.


77 posted on 05/05/2006 6:31:33 AM PDT by Valin (Purple Fingers Rule!)
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To: mkjessup

The jurors said that they were afraid of retaliation.

This kind of cowardace is really what is behind anti-Bush sentiment. They think if we'd just leave the Muslims alone, they would leave us alone.

The problems with keeping the terrorist goofball alive is (1) a stupid Federal judge might decide he deserves to get out -- the Left will be filled with stories of Moussaoui's "mistreatment" in prison (2) a stupid Federal judge undoubtedly will decide that he needs to be relocated to a place where he can meet with the press every day.

And then we will never be spared his rantings.


78 posted on 05/05/2006 6:32:11 AM PDT by AmishDude (AmishDude, servant of the dark lord Xenu.)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen

And a good thing, too! Many people in the State Department and DHS get severely stressed out knowing about many of the threats and dangers that never become public... but I guarantee, this is one guy France ain't about to stand up for. On the other hand, French prisons are notoriously horrible places. Buried alive; living hell -- take your pick! :-)


79 posted on 05/05/2006 6:39:07 AM PDT by austinTparty
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To: Valin
I believe he get 3 showers a week not 1.

Most likely 3 more than he usually takes.

80 posted on 05/05/2006 6:41:57 AM PDT by Dahoser (Time to condense the stupid party nonsense: Terry Tate for RNC chairman.)
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To: Jim Noble
You wrote: "You think Canada's eastern city dwellers will be any different when the bombs start going off?"

Maybe not, but it won't matter. The Liberal/Socialist parties in Canada are being reduced to rump status with small power bases in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. Their power and influence is receeding, not expanding. The new government is actively pursuing terrorists and their organizations.

Several recent stories illustrate how things are changing in Canada.

1) It came to light, recently, that the the CIA and FBI might be engaged in wiretapping terrorists in Canada, perhaps with collusion of Canadian authorities. That was a ONE DAY STORY that DIED. Nobody cared.

2) The new government is packing ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS onto airplanes and deporting them to their country of origin. Very little outcry, in fact the majority of Canadians agree with this policy.

3) Prime Minister Harper made a trip to Afghanistan to support the Canadian troops fighting AQ in Khandahar. There have been some deaths among the soldiers, and there will be more. The government announced that there will be no mourning ceremonies for individual deaths and the media will not be allowed to use these occasions for propaganda purposes. The media howled, the public agreed with the PM.

4) The PM has started to insert the phrase "God Bless Canada" at the end of his speeches. Once again, the media is upset, but except for the athiests and agnostics, the public is not objecting.

As a result of these, and many other actions, the Conservative government's approval rating has gone up since the election. We expect another election next year that should result in a substantial Conservative majority government. I think this Conservative governmentis standing tall and gaining approval every day.

81 posted on 05/05/2006 6:44:27 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: Valin

Ohhhh


82 posted on 05/05/2006 6:44:38 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Southern, Conservitive and Proud of it - Hmmm)
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To: Jim Noble
Jonathan Pollard remains in prison, despite desperate pleas from Israel, a much closer ally than France.

Moussaoui will not be extradited, will gradually be forgotten and will likely figure out a way to kill himself.

83 posted on 05/05/2006 6:45:00 AM PDT by sinkspur ( I didn't know until just now that it was Barzini all along.)
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To: Old Grumpy
Bad thing is - they only have one hour each day to get at him.

He spends his one hour in the yard alone. A guard would have to get him.

84 posted on 05/05/2006 6:45:06 AM PDT by kabar
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To: mathprof
"To dedicate the act of murdering a stewardess, pilot or passenger to Allah"..
...is the ultimate blasphemy.
"if our moral betters aren't going to let Saddam's torturers rot in Abu Ghraib, if they aren't going to let the CIA's most important al Qaeda captives rot in 'secret' foreign prisons, they certainly aren't going to let Moussaoui rot in Florence, Colo."

"9 of 12 jurors would vote that Moussaoui's childhood was "dysfunctional" and 'mitigating.'"

It is the Left--which flatters itself our moral betters--that is the fundamental enemy of America, the enabler of the enemies of the U.S.A., and a fifth column. The Democrat Party is its Political Arm, the "Mainstream Newsmedia" its Propaganda Machine.

This cannot be overemphasized.

The Left is hubritic and delusional, and, if Leftists should prevail, their hubris and denial will inevitably lead to tragedy and destruction.

And it is important to remember this:

9/11 was never repeated thanks to President G. W. Bush.

The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America, and it is alive, well, and flourishing!

85 posted on 05/05/2006 6:47:29 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: murdoog
The FALN prisoners were nowhere near as well-known as Mousaoui, so it probably looked politically safer than pardoning Moussaoui would be.

30 to 40 years from now, very few Americans will remember who Mousaoui is. Hell, many have forgot about 9/11.

86 posted on 05/05/2006 6:48:04 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Even now, few can spell his name.


87 posted on 05/05/2006 6:49:47 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: Nephi
For those who argue that his sentence of life without parole is the worse than death, can they guarantee that no Americans will be taken hostage/killed for Moussaoui's release, or that some future liberal president won't give him clemency?

Clinton never pardoned Pollard. The justice system operates independently of political considerations (or at least it should). Nobody in al-Qaeda gives a damn about these people. Ramsi Yousef (WTC bomber in 1993) has been at a Supermax for eleven years, and there have been no efforts to leverage him.

The Islamists know that we will never yield to their demands.

88 posted on 05/05/2006 6:50:06 AM PDT by sinkspur ( I didn't know until just now that it was Barzini all along.)
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To: buck61

>Maybe the trial could have been transferred to Texas, instead of VA<

Keep in mind, the trial was held in NORTHERN Virginia, which has fewer native Virginians living within its boundaries than any other part of the state.

Had Moussaoui been tried in the southwest part of the state, he'd be on Death Row, instead of serving life with possibility of pardon by President Hitlary Rotten Clintoon.


89 posted on 05/05/2006 6:50:26 AM PDT by Darnright (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: AmishDude
"This kind of cowardace is really what is behind anti-Bush sentiment."

Yes, the anti-Bush sentiment and the other Leftis contentions--cowardice, denial of the existence of evil, and a shallow, hubritic sense of morality.

90 posted on 05/05/2006 6:54:55 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: Jim Noble
France will immediately start agitation for his transfer to a French prison (i.e., his release).

Turn the Statue of Liberty into a missile, shackle Moussaoui to it and send it back to them...

91 posted on 05/05/2006 6:57:15 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

I really glad to hear all this about Canada. Now can we kiss and make up?


92 posted on 05/05/2006 6:57:15 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: longtermmemmory
The state department will control this transfer issue and I submit the state department does NOT have the interests of the USA at their core.

BS. As a retired Foreign Service Officer with 28 years in the State Department, former naval officer, and Vietnam vet, I find your characterization totally false and offensive. There is a wall in the State Department lobby listing the State Department personnel who have died for their country right through 2006. I know and served with some of them. Questioning their loyalty and patriotism is despicable.

FYI: The State Department will not/not control the transfer issue. The WH and Congress will make any such decision.

93 posted on 05/05/2006 6:57:57 AM PDT by kabar
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To: JeffreyH

I was ( God forgive me) hoping for the very same treatment but then I heard that he will not be allowed contact with other inmates. Maybe in many years but not now. Thats why I came up with the tv idea. Since hes muslim I figure anything thats another religion would really make him mad. Or perhaps horrible music 24/7 would be fitting. We are just too humane to ba$tards like this monster.


94 posted on 05/05/2006 6:59:16 AM PDT by pandoraou812 ( barbaric with zero tolerance and dilligaf?)
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To: Jim Noble

Why would the French even want this guy back?


95 posted on 05/05/2006 7:01:07 AM PDT by uncitizen
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To: linda_22003

LOL. In Arabic?


96 posted on 05/05/2006 7:01:35 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

No, I meant here on this board, and also in the juror's transcript where someone hand-lettered "Zacarius".


97 posted on 05/05/2006 7:03:01 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: mathprof
Just make sure his TV is tuned to the all Danish Muslim Cartoon channel 24/7.
98 posted on 05/05/2006 7:04:52 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (The difference between democrats and terrorists is the terrorists don't claim to support the troops)
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To: linda_22003

He is a French citizen so I guess we go with the name on his passport, but the arabic names are phonetically transferred into our alphabet. There are a number of variations on how Mohammed is spelled. AQ the same way.


99 posted on 05/05/2006 7:07:18 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Savage Beast
You mean you and I or the US and Canada?

There were some irritants in bilateral relations but the real problem was the liberal Canadian leadership that used anti-Americanism to help them retain power. The conservatives were elected on a platform of getting along with our neighbors. Anti-Americanism does not get you elected in Canada anymore. Pretty simple, eh?

Additionally, our new PM solved a long standing trade dispute in three months that the liberals couldn't solve in 12 years. Perhaps negotiating with the Americans works better than abusing them.

The people of Canada, outside a minority in the three largest cities, never had anything against the US. With the lumber issue behind us, a surging Canadian dollar to stoke the electorates pride, rising US dependence on Canadian energy supplies and common interests in defeating terrorism, you will appreciate a very strong American ally in the north.

100 posted on 05/05/2006 7:09:42 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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