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To: cake_crumb

"Nope, hang the man for managing to get ANY further on a fence"

His was a policy speech, not a budget request.

What he needed to say was a sea-to-sea fence, not a partial fence and not a "virtual" fence, and he needed not to say "guest worker" until the border is secure.
He knew this too.
But he chose, instead, to not give the Border Conservatives what they say they want.
He chose to try and split the baby, which looks like rope-a-dope.

It didn't work, and it's not going to work.
He's not going to get credit for asking for something that the target audience says it doesn't want, while refusing to give them what they said they wanted.

The President is not a stupid man, and he is well advised. His speech was calculated to SOUND LIKE he was giving people what they wanted, without, however, moving off his original position.
The BorderBots were not duped, and they are angrier than they were before that the President tried to dupe them.

What needs to happen now, to save the GOP's bacon, is that the Congressional reconciliation committee needs to ignore the President and agree in principle to a border to border fence, without amnesty now. They can offer to discuss it down the pike.

That will keep the BorderBots voting GOP this November.
If they get status quo, or guest worker, or no sea-to-sea fence, enough will stay home that we lose.

Why are we doing this?
Why don't we just cave and give this key element of the base what THEY say they want?
What is the PRINCIPLE that we are standing on here to leave the borders open?

Do we just have a political death wish?


2,773 posted on 05/18/2006 7:33:33 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva!)
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To: Vicomte13
Do we just have a political death wish?

Bush the Elder did the same with his tax hikes. But the GOP losses in 1992 were not his fault, no. It was all the fault of the Perot voters.

Likewise, Bush's defenders on this issue simply cannot bring themselves to realize that Bush is willing to ally with liberal Dems and risk losing GOP control of the House to get his way - rather than take the PRUDENT step of holding off on a guest worker program for now. It is political brinksmanship of the worst kind - and it apparently runs in the family.

2,777 posted on 05/18/2006 7:38:13 AM PDT by dirtboy (An illegal immigrant says my tagline used to be part of Mexico)
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To: Vicomte13
"His was a policy speech, not a budget request."

Actually, it's another attempt to succeed at what he's been attempting for several. That's snagged in litigation. Fence proponents have been perversely unsupportive of the fed against the environazis/"human rights" types.

Do you honestly believe that any bill not containing anything about guest workers will be passed by the Senate? We have a razer thin majority, and thanks to Lott and Frist the 2/3 thirds majority problem. Besides, we have a guest worker program in place already.

Also, wouldn't saying we'll discuss things like amnesty after the fence is built sound a little greasy and snakelike to proponents of some amnesty and still outrage the one issue border types? Though it might slow down the forgery industry which is no doubt ready to gear up.

Either way, I agree that we seem to have a political death wish and the House needs to laugh that Senate bill to death and force a commonsense compromise which CAN work. And it would be fat better for the prsident to support it.

2,831 posted on 05/18/2006 8:55:53 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: One Wing to Rule them All and to the Darkside Bind them)
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