"The best I can gather from this post is that there can be no debate because if you disagree with the Bush stance you are evil. This defies my brain's natural ability to reason and conservative principal.
I guess I will just self-censore and not opine on immigration any more, because FR has in effect, through slights , etc.. and things like this made it quite clear that no dicussion on the issue is welcome."
No, no.
Steady on, mate.
Pukin didn't really mean that.
He said quite a bit there that acknowledged your position.
He said, for example, that Border Conservatives need to get out and vote in huge numbers in the PRIMARIES, to get Border Conservatives on the ballot. That's true, to the extent it works.
Of course, where there's an open borders GOP incumbent, that won't work. Now, you and I know that you won't vote for an open borders incumbent, no matter what.
We know that you're not going to cast a caucus vote this time. DO be sure to know your candidate's position. Don't just punish Republicans: focus your ire on Republicans who refuse to give you your fence.
And don't stop talking here.
Rather, stop fighting.
You've LOST the political fight: The President doesn't want to give you your fence, and the Senate doesn't want to either.
Don't snarl at them and at Republicans in general.
Instead, be hard as a diamond, and focused, and explain - calmly - that the PRICE of your vote is a Fence.
You can't have everything. You're not going to get deportations and enforcement against employers and all those things you want. But you can get the most reasonable thing, and the thing that will ULTIMATELY achieve your goal: the Fence, sooner or later, provided you remain active, remain involved, remain committed, but be CLEAR: you will give your VOTE and your MONEY to somebody who will give you a FENCE. Otherwise, no.
This has been the pro-life strategy for years.
Remember that George Bush 41 was in fact personally pro-choice. But he saw, clear as a bell, that pro-choice voters would stay home unless he changed his position. Note that he didn't do anything about abortion, so it was merely the symbolism that the counted. But it counted. Republicans are afraid of tax hawks, because they lost the election of 1992 because of them. Then they took over the party in 1994. Republicans never propose tax hikes anymore.
Republicans are afraid of pro-lifers. Bush threw his friend Miers under the train because he knew he had to. The pro-lifers were not going to let the party live if an open Supreme Court seat was snatched from their certain grasp.
Republicans are not currently afraid ENOUGH of you BorderBots. They're going to either wake up before November, or November will wake them up. In any case, you have to be clear with them, and realistic: a FENCE is your minimum condition. You can't demand everything on your agenda,just like tax hawks cannot demand the Fair Tax as a condition of their vote, and pro-lifers cannot demand impeachment of all pro-choice Supreme Court justices as a condition of their vote.
Universal prosecution and deportation and penalties are unreasonable and unrealistic. But a FENCE, that is reasonable, and realistic, and in the end it is the MOST IMPORTANT piece of the immigration battle anyway, because THAT stops the flow.
So, don't leave.
Don't snipe.
Don't pick on other Republicans who disagree with you.
Hunker down and state your condition.
Be sincere, stay in the game. Sooner or later the party HAS TO come to you guys. It would be better if it were this Summer instead of next Summer, but one way or the other you are going to win on your issue - IF you stay in ranks and stay the course.
I agree with you on the fence. I think that is doable this year in a compromise too. I think a universal ID card with strong sanctions for hiring illegals would be a lot more effective, however.
I do continue to be a bit more optimistic than you.
If by November the state of play is as follows ...
(1) The House has stymied a guest worker plan ... so essentially no legislation has passed except some increased funding for border security.
(2) The President has actually taken some serious steps to secure the border ... and there is evidence it is working.
(3) We have seen footage of the Guard troops building barriers and fences at critical border crossings.
... then I'm not so sure the absence of a fence will cause mass defections in November.
Now, if guest worker gets through Congress but the fence doesn't ... put me down for the apocalyptic November scenario.