Posted on 06/17/2006 5:15:15 AM PDT by wintertime
One of the ongoing controversies in the public schools is the issue of teacher salaries. Teachers largely claim they are too low while taxpayers are equally vehement that they are more than adequate.
(snip)
Then there are the actual salary levels. Statistics in 2005 showed the average teacher salary in the nation was $46,762, ranging from a low of $33,236 in South Dakota to $57,337 in Connecticut. Even this ignores the additional compensation teachers receive as fringe benefits, which may add an additional 33% or more to the costs, primarily for very good retirement and health coverage plans. Further, averages include starting teacher salaries, which may begin at $30,000 or less, which teachers gladly mention, but ignore the high salaries of career teachers at or near the maximum on their salary schedule, important because retirement pensions are often based on the best three or so years.
(snip)
Last year, the New York State Department of Education issued a study that reported maximum teacher salaries in that state of $100,000 or more and median salaries as high as $98,000 per year. That is, there were districts, in Westchester County for example, where half of the teachers earned more than $98,000 a year.
A novel approach a few years ago by Michael Antonucci, director of the Education Intelligence Agency in California, compared teachers average salaries to average salaries all workers state by state. First prize went to Pennsylvania where the teachers received 62.5% more than the average employee. That difference is even greater when it is further considered that teachers average a 185 day work year while most workers put in 235.
(snip) Women who had been educators were 7.4% of the total deceased that year but 20.6% of them, nearly three times the statistical expectation were among the affluent few. Former male educators didn't do quite as well but even they were represented among the wealthy decedents by a ratio nearly 1.5 times the anticipated numerical ratio.
The "real World" is that a public school district is a governmental agency, and they exist because the public wants them. As a former teacher, I do not see, for the life of me, how you can tie salary to the performance of students. Exceptions would be the scores that students get in AP courses, over a period of years, but that --to me fair--would depend on the teacher's ability to select students. I mean, to have the same choices as a football coach.
Of course it's a relevant point. The entire point of the article we're supposedly commenting on is that teachers are paid so much more than the "average workers" in their states.
From the discussions I have seen on FR and the teachers posting to them, I suspect teachers do not really want to be compared to the real world.
For many of those of us posting on FR, teaching is a second career. We know what we could and did make in "the real world" and we know what we are earning as teachers and how the working conditions compare.
We know, and knew when we became teachers, that merit has very little, if anything, to do with how much you are paid, and the only real way to get promoted in education is to leave the classroom. I know it's not likely that science and math teachers will ever get paid more than elementary and P.E. teachers, because there are more of them than there are of us - although just the law of supply & demand ought to dictate that we be paid more, you'd think.
We also know that most teachers do not work 7 or fewer hours per day for only 185 days per year, and we know what we do when we were at work -- and, believe me, if you've never taught, you may *think* you know, and you may *think* it's easy, but you don't have a clue.
I have seen very little cheating. Our school uses computers to test for our state exams and the tests are scrambled. No opportunity to cheat. However, my rising junior reports that she has seen kids text message answers, take pictures of tests and forward them to others or ask questions of another during a test via the cell phone.
Are you not allowed to insist on good performance?
I only see lip service to this idea. If a child fails, the teacher had better be able to demonstrate over and over how they tried to help that kid. This can be documented with phone calls, conferences with student, parent and administration, notes home, emails home, or extra help. And not just one of these things--all of these things over and over. If a teacher cannot show multiple example of each, she will be blamed for the failure.
Are writing skills ignored?
In a word...yes... teaching writing is hard work and kids will resist writing from the get go. Teachers are expected to entertain the students with hands-on activities every class, every day. Kids hear from many sources how "boring" grammar is and it all becomes a self-fufilling prophecy.
Are you forced to entertain children?
See above
Is there no ethic of excellence taught to the kids? Certainly, if no moral standard is enforced, a group of kids can quickly devolve along Lord of the Flies lines.
Ethics are slippery. My ethics may look quite a bit different from yours, especially if you come from a culture or school that emphasizes cooperation. The few children I have taught that were from a Latino culture do not view giving an answer to a friend as cheating--it is helping. (Please don't interpret that to mean all Latinos cheat--it is based on my experience in this area with about 20 or so kids)
What is your biggest challenge in the classroom?
Finding appropriate reading materials that both motivate and teach and are quality writing.
Do you think the material you teach now is comparable to what you learned in school, better, worse?
I think materials now are more colorful and come in shorter bits and bites. It's Sesame Street, but in text. Quick jumps to and from.
Is appropriate material taught, but the children don't make an effort?
Yes and no... A good teacher can use substandard materials and teach kids to think and excel. But a substandard teacher cannot teach no matter what materials are used.
Do parents cheat for their children and do their children's homework? Do parents call the school to complain about every little thing and insist that grades get changed?
This is a big problem. I often joke with my colleagues when I see projects on display and ask what grade did mom get? I have heard parent BRAG about doing their kids projects--yes, I'm serious--BRAG that they got an A on a 6th grade diorama. And yes, parents are constantly on the backs of teachers and principals to justify every grade. We had a parent last year take his kids grades in English to his accountant to verify the teacher was correct. (She was)
Can students read? Are they taught phonics?
Thankfully, we are seeing the tail end of kids in my county that were taught whole language. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping to see fewer problems in reading. My county adopted a developmental approach about 6 years ago (new buzzword for phonics instruction) and since I'm an 8th grade teacher, I'll be seeing this new crop of kids in the next couple of years.
Do all students memorize math equations? Is elementary algebra taught to all students?
Algebra is available as young as 7th in our county and on occasion in 6th. My younger daughter is a rising junior and has finished 1 section of Calc--she was on an accelerated schedule as she loves math. So far she has earned all A's--but it will be interesting to see the AP scores when they come in.
Solving the problem will not be easy. There are many teachers who are just entrenched in their ways. But it doesn't help when people lump all of us in one pile and consider us all to be losers. I will spend some time thinking about this issue and analyzing what could be reasonably done.
Thanks for your encouragement. Hope I gave you some of what you were looking for.
Wintertime seems to have some family members she has issues with who are teachers, and is taking out those frustrations on us.
It would be interesting to know just what they did to her to instill such resentment, wouldn't it?
MMmmmmmmmaybe. but as my daughter says, "There are some minds you don't want to enter. You may not come out the other side."
By the by, you on break yet? Today is my first day.
On the other hand, I'm also taking some of those summer classes that were mentioned earlier in the thread, so there's been no vacation & I haven't started the annual "summer cleaning" yet. ;-)
That's funny...because I see ton's of whining by the DBM about this CEO..or that CFO settling to earth with some humongous parachute.
BTW..I'm not going to begrudge anyone for wanting more....but I can tell you it's very tiresome to read in the local catfish wrap...at least every week..about how teachers are underpaid. Now I realize most of this is designed by the NEA......but it does happen way too often.
When I decided on a profession...I had an idea what that profession paid. Many times..it appears as if newly graduated teachers have no clue as to what the job market held for them.....
Maybe it's just me...but that doesn't seem very smart.
I'm starting an ESOL certification in the fall, so no classess this summer--just toting a certain 16 year old across the East Coast so that I can sit in the sun from 8 am until 9 pm and watch her play softball....did I mention she hit for the cycle this weekend? :)
yeah, I might have
bump
And, traveling up & down the East coast and spending the day sitting in the sun sounds like a great vacation to a lot of people, although they might prefer a beach to a softball field. ;-)
And it is nice to have most of the same vacation days as your children do. That in itself was worth the pay cut to me.
You act as if you WANT teachers to be under educated just to have one more thing to hate about us.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Soft Ball Mom,
The SAT scores of teachers are among the lowest of the college majors. They aren't the brightest bulbs on the academic shelf.
Wintertime seems to have some family members she has issues with who are teachers, and is taking out those frustrations on us.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Amelia wins the "Lucy Award". She most resembles the character Lucy in the Peanuts cartoon strip. Lucy had a sidewalk stand with a sign that read: "Psychiatrist is in. Five cents, please."
Maybe it's just me...but that doesn't seem very smart.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well...Teachers do have some of the lowest SAT scores of campus majors. They aren't the brightest bulbs on the academic shelf. Smart? Maybe not.
I didn't take the SAT, I took the ACT and I don't remember my scores, although I remember being told my reading score was unusually high. I do remember my GRE though--Verbal and Quantitative were over 1400 (Didn't have to take the Analytical so I did A B C D and got a 400--interesting huh?)
So, my scores were just fine by any standard.
And speaking of "brightest bulbs" -- softball is one word.
I suppose you would be Pigpen, the character who is always surrounded by a black cloud?
Mine were in the top 1% in the nation - 30+ years ago, before they "realigned" the scores.
But that brings up a good question. Even your article says that teaching isn't a "high status" profession:
When compared with what he terms "the so-called status professions - attorney, corporate executives, physicians and such" as to the percentage of their income they give to charitable causes, teachers rank first.
I thought it was really interesting that teachers tend, statistically, to be very generous with their money. I suspect it's because many teachers do want to improve the world, and that's why they choose teaching as a career.
But, what needs to change so that more bright individuals will choose teaching as a career instead of these "high status" careers?
Great teachers speak to their students from their soul every day. But only some kids hear. I wish that weren't so, but it is.
I also wish there were a pat answer for poor performance, by teachers and students. Divorce is probably the main culprit for children's poor performance. I know several boys who needed to be left back because they were emotionally devastated by their parents' divorce. Teachers are held back by the union because the union is so good at what it does -- it makes money for the teachers, as many teachers as possible. Whether these teachers are any good is immaterial; this is a union, not Jeopardy. However, the union has let bad habits solidify in the worst schools, and now the profession is facing a crisis of legitimacy. This crisis will only get worse as boys continue to drop out or forgo college. These boys will educate themselves somewhere else, probably on the internet with tutors in other countries, cheaply. Once this happens it will be very difficult to justify the teachers' benefit packages, vacations, and salaries.
Amelia, I found your mention of the principal's role in school excellence interesting. I assume, as in some private companies, there is little preparation for leadership given to teachers who wish to become administrators. It's too bad something can't be done about that.
As an aside, it would be fun to start a thread celebrating great teachers who changed the way we see the world.
On the other hand, one remembering rotten teachers who were so bad the fact should be carved on their tombstones might be better. Many Freepers could use a catharsis, because, good or bad, teachers are forever. ;-)
In 1969, I.W. reported for duty. . .
(show a sea of smiling 7th graders, bouncing off the walls)
"Self," I said to meself, "the Viet Cong can't be this bad." (Cue music, chopper blades whirring, fade to rice paddy image. . .)
And then you go from there. Just remember, when you write your screenplay, to copywrite it and join the writers' union before you send it to the studios. The entertainment biz -- another industry where the union is king.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.