The Vatican Confronts Islam

Front Page Magazine ^ | 05 July 2006 | Daniel Pipes

[muir_redwoods]

You are either lying or delusional. crawl back under your rock

[jokar]

Bump to the top.

[Sun]

That's nice to hear bump!

[Sun]

"Finally! That image of the previous Pope kissing the koran made me wanna puke..."

Five sides to every story, and do you have a picture of that?

[FreedomPoster]

ISLAM DELENDA EST!, indeed.

May have to consider that for a tagline replacement, this one is starting to get a little stale.

[Fred Nerks]

Is this the koran or is it not the koran?

[Sun]

"Is this the koran or is it not the koran?"

Actually, I wouldn't know the koran if I saw it, and it's possible that Pope John Paul II didn't know it either, or it's significance, anyway.

It's also possible that he thought that is the proper thing to do in that culture.

I really can only guess why he did this, and wish there was an expert who could possibly tell us why.

In any event, he was being polite.

Thanx for the pix.

[Fred Nerks]

I can only assume he had not read the koran before he kissed it:

Regarding Christ's death on the Cross, the Qu'ran says:
"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary a grave false charge; That they said (in boast): We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah. But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. ... And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them (Christians)." (Koran, 4:156-159)

[Sun]

"I can only assume he had not read the koran before he kissed it:"

I would make the same assumption that Pope John Paul II would not have read the koran, and particularly, not know the passage that you quoted.

I just did a search, and here is an explanation, with link:

"My husband and I have a friend who is a Coptic Catholic. He grew up in Egypt, he is no friend of Islam and knows Middle Eastern culture very well.

He tells us that it is a Middle Eastern custom, when someone gives you a gift, to kiss the gift as a gesture of respect toward the giver. It does not necessarily mean you are reverencing the gift, it is just a sign of respect for the person who gave it to you.

The Koran in question was a gift, given to the Pope by a group of Iraqi Muslims. He accepted the book and kissed it, using an Eastern gesture of respect toward the givers. He did not intend to reverence or worship the Koran, just to honor the gift-givers.

Thus my Coptic Catholic friend has no problem with the Pope's action, even though he rather dislikes Islam and the Koran himself. He understands the Pope's gesture as it was intended, while we Westerners erroneously judge it based on our own cultural biases."

http://www.jimmyakin.org/2005/09/robert_spencer_.html

[Fred Nerks]

thanks, that makes sense.

[prairiebreeze]

It is because of the tolerant largesse of the moderators that you are still here. You've made no further posts since your first and incorrect announcement.

Frankly, I don't believe you are who and what you claim to be. But don't insult our intelligence. FReepers are extremely well read, and understand situations thoroughly due to intellect and discussion.

So far, you've demonstrated little to none of either.

[prairiebreeze]

Move in the right direction ping. (Ignore the obvious troll who hijacks the thread with is large font)

[prairiebreeze]

meant to also ping you to this IG

[Mo1]

Gee .. yell much??

[Mo1]

Thanks for the ping

[oyez]

If Muslims were such wonderful people they would be lynching the extremists, but they just lay back and do nothing. These are stone age people and desire to remain stone age.

[oyez]

If Muslims were such wonderful people they would be lynching the extremists, but they just lay back and do nothing. These are stone age people and desire to remain stone age.

[TChris]

Explaining his apparent rejection of Jesus’ admonition to his followers to “turn the other cheek,” De Paolis noted...

I believe that teaching of the Savior is misunderstood. It was given to the Jews at a time of Roman occupation, and they were often demeaned, insulted and abused by the Romans. The instruction to "offer them the other", if smitten on the cheek was referring to a humiliating insult, not a life-threatening attack.

I don't believe that Christ ever taught His followers that it was their duty to meet a lethal attack without resistance. I think he meant to teach meekness and patience in the face of insult and humiliation. Peace does not equal pacifism.

[oyez]

If Muslims were such wonderful people they would be lynching the extremists, but they just lay back and do nothing. These are stone age people and desire to remain stone age.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

"He tells us that it is a Middle Eastern custom, when someone gives you a gift, to kiss the gift as a gesture of respect toward the giver. It does not necessarily mean you are reverencing the gift, it is just a sign of respect for the person who gave it to you."

And now the Rest of the Story:

The gift of a Koran specifically is considered by Muslims a call to convert to Islam which is the real "gift". Accepting it is an acknowledgement that you will consider the call. Considering a call to another religion shows a lack of Christian faith or extreme ignorance. Consider too the damage that one picture did to JPII's reputation. It has been reposted here many times including by me.

Also consider the reaction of a Muslim Imam to a gift of a Bible. I also read online (not related to the Pope picture) that after accepting a Koran, someone attempted to return the favor by giving a Bible in return and the Imam recoiled in horror refusing to accept it and its implicit call to reject Islam, a capital offense. I wonder if the Pope ever tried that? His apparent failure to do so, there is no Bible in the photo, was his second faux pas to be gleaned from the picture.