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'Nazi aircraft carrier' located
BBC NEWS ^ | July 28 2006 | BBC NEWS

Posted on 07/28/2006 9:07:33 AM PDT by managusta

The Polish navy says it is almost certain that it has located the wreck of Nazi Germany's only aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin.

A Polish firm searching for oil first detected the wreck in the Baltic Sea, 55km (34 miles) offshore.

The ship's whereabouts had been a mystery since the end of World War II.

The navy investigated and said it was 99% certain that the wreck was the Graf Zeppelin. The ship, built in 1938, never saw action in the war.

The navy said it was unlikely that the 250-metre (820-foot) wreck would be recovered from the seabed, as it was at a depth of more than 80 metres (264 feet).

"Technically it's impossible to pull it out of the water," a spokesman for the Polish navy, Lieutenant Commander Bartosz Zajda told the Associated Press news agency.

After the oil company Petrobaltic discovered the wreck, the Polish navy mounted a two-day expedition to the site north of the Polish port of Wladyslawowo.

Experts used remote-controlled underwater robots and sonar photographic and video equipment to gather digital images.

The navy spokesman said there were a number of characteristics matching those of the German warship.

However, the experts were still waiting to find the name on one side of the shipwreck before declaring with absolute certainty that it was that of Graf Zeppelin.

The 33,000-ton ship, able to reach a speed of 33 knots, fitted Hitler's grandiose ambitions, but the German U-boats took priority in the battle at sea.

There are conflicting theories about how it was sunk.

Some experts believe the Germans scuttled it in Szczecin (Stettin) in April 1945, just before the Soviet Army captured the city.

Others say the Soviet navy used the ship for target practice and sank it as part of a training exercise in 1947.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aircraftcarrier; duplicatethread; german; grafzeppelin; grafzepplin; shipwreck; wwii
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They never used it in action.
1 posted on 07/28/2006 9:07:34 AM PDT by managusta
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To: managusta
Luckily for us, Hitler started the war six years before the Kriegsmarine building plan (the 'Z-Plan') was completed. When the war began, Adm. Raeder's comment was, "There is nothing left for us to to but die with honor."

As US Gen. Carl Spaatz so eloquently put it, "I'd hate to see how it would have gone if Hitler hadn't been on our side."

2 posted on 07/28/2006 9:14:22 AM PDT by Seydlitz
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To: Seydlitz

So true.

Hitler lost the war. The Allies were given enough time to regroup and build up. If Germany had built a good surface navy, D Day would have been impossible.


3 posted on 07/28/2006 9:19:22 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Seydlitz
Its good for the allies and the Human race that hitler was a meddling fool when it came to new weapons
4 posted on 07/28/2006 9:19:58 AM PDT by Charlespg (Civilization and freedom are only worthy of those who defend or support defending It)
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To: managusta

5 posted on 07/28/2006 9:20:18 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: managusta
Others say the Soviet navy used the ship for target practice and sank it as part of a training exercise in 1947.

I find that hard to believe.

Stalin was not stupid, nor were his admirals.

They would not have sunk such a valuable piece of hardware on a lark. Unless I am sorely mistaken, the Soviet Navy had a grand total of zero aircraft carriers in 1948.

More likely the US sank it before the Soviets could use it.

6 posted on 07/28/2006 9:31:42 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: managusta
FINNALLY!!!
Concrete evidence that big oil are all NAZI'S
7 posted on 07/28/2006 9:38:29 AM PDT by xpertskir (McCain Lieberman '08(democratic ticket))
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To: redgolum
If Germany had built a good surface navy, D Day would have been impossible.

Hitler had many flaws. He failed to see the value in a strong navy. He dismissed plans for an A-Bomb as, "Jewish Physics." We were lucky that he had so many shortcomings. Many people don't realize it, but as he began his land war, the German Army wasn't even fully mechanized. Some vehicles were still horse-drawn. Yes..he started to fight six years before he was ready.

8 posted on 07/28/2006 9:39:15 AM PDT by ExtremeUnction
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To: Names Ash Housewares

looks kinda small


9 posted on 07/28/2006 9:42:17 AM PDT by Nihil Obstat
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To: ExtremeUnction

They still had horses till the end.

Scary isn't it. The US fought Germany and Japan with better equipment in many cases, but still had trouble.


10 posted on 07/28/2006 9:42:46 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: managusta
The Polish navy says it is almost certain that it has located the wreck of Nazi Germany's only aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin.

Was it found by their paratroopers?

11 posted on 07/28/2006 9:43:33 AM PDT by JRios1968 (There's 3 kinds of people in this world...those who know math and those who don't.)
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To: Nihil Obstat

Is that a Zoolander reference?


12 posted on 07/28/2006 9:44:18 AM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
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To: wideawake
Without evidence, I would lean toward the Germans sinking it themselves because they had a pattern of doing that.
13 posted on 07/28/2006 9:46:09 AM PDT by grapeape (I we stop talking about the NYT it will go bankrupt.)
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To: redgolum
The US fought Germany and Japan with better equipment in many cases, but still had trouble.

Germany had some great weapons. But it's strongest asset was it's troops. They fought well, and they fought hard.

14 posted on 07/28/2006 9:47:37 AM PDT by ExtremeUnction
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To: Charlespg
Its good for the allies and the Human race that hitler was a meddling fool when it came to new weapons

Micromanaging is the marque of a real paranoid loser............re: Klintoons..............

15 posted on 07/28/2006 9:50:04 AM PDT by Red Badger (Is Castro dead yet?........)
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To: Seydlitz; redgolum; Charlespg
Here's a list of what the German Navy would have had if Hitler had waited until 1944 as he'd promised his admirals.

Six H-class battleships- At 140,000-tons and armed with eight 20-inch main guns, these monsters would have been twice as big as the Japanese Yamato-class super-battleships.

Three battlecruisers- slightly larger and faster than the Bismarck-class battleships, these vessels would have the same armament, but not as much armor.

Four aircraft carriers- Roughly the same size as the American Lexington-class carriers, these vessels would carry only half the aircraft of their American counterparts, but would have heavier armor to allow it to survive battle damage that would have sunk an American carrier.

Twelve panzerschiffe> or pocket-battleships- The Deutchland-class pocket battleships were one of the most unique warship designs in modern times. Essentially a junior-weight battlecruiser, these ships were designed to out fight anything they couldn't out run. While this wasn't always the case (ie the Graf Spee), these vessels were extremely effective as commerce raiders and forced the Royal Navy to divert much of its battlefleet to deal with them.

In addition, large numbers of cruisers and destroyers were intended to be constructed, along with a U-boat fleet of two hundred fifty submarines.

16 posted on 07/28/2006 10:01:10 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I see storms on the horizon.")
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To: Nihil Obstat

You should see the crew!

It was the best pic I could find that showed the structure of the flight deck.


17 posted on 07/28/2006 10:02:11 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: managusta; All

From what I've read... it stopped being 'worked on' in 1942... partially stripped for parts in 1943... and scuttled in 1945. It was raised by the Russians to haul loot back home... then struck a mine and sank in 1947.


18 posted on 07/28/2006 10:02:47 AM PDT by johnny7 (“And what's Fonzie like? Come on Yolanda... what's Fonzie like?!”)
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To: Nihil Obstat
"It's only a model"

Actully my ad hoc "rate the carries spreadsheet" puts it in the same range as the USS Essex, the IJN Taiho, and the 1946 Soviet "Light" Carrier project.

19 posted on 07/28/2006 10:26:49 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain)
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To: managusta
The theory I have always thought to be the most likely was that it sank because overloaded with loot that shifted.

After the Soviet's occupied Germany and Eastern Europe, they spent the next few years systematically shipping home whole factories, railroad stock, power plants, ext. Real heavy stuff. Perfect cargo for the flight and hanger decks of an aircraft carrier
I am sure more than a few heads were lost a a result of the loss of so much loot.
20 posted on 07/28/2006 10:32:49 AM PDT by fogofbobegabay
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