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Lopez Obrador's Supporters Occupy Capital of Mexico (City Center Shut Down - Vow to Force Recount)
San Diego Tribune ^ | July 31, 2006 | S. Lynne Walker

Posted on 07/31/2006 8:19:58 AM PDT by StJacques

MEXICO CITY – Leftist Andrés Manuel López Obrador led his supporters into Mexico City's streets yesterday and launched an occupation of the nation's capital that he vowed to continue until federal electoral officials accept his demand for a recount in the presidential election.

Casting the protest as a defense of Mexico's fragile democracy, López Obrador outlined a detailed plan to close nearly two dozen main thoroughfares by setting up encampments in the heart of Mexico City's business district.

He also promised to stay with supporters “day and night” at a permanent camp he asked them to set up in the city's historic main plaza, the Zócalo.

“This goes beyond the fact that they should recognize my triumph as president of the republic,” López Obrador told a crowd of several hundred thousand supporters packed into the Zócalo yesterday. “The fundamental issue is that there is democracy in our country.”. . .

(Excerpt) Read more at signonsandiego.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2006; amlo; election; lopezobrador; mexelect; mexico; mexicocity; prd; protest; tooclosetocall
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To: Max in Utah

You're on the ping list Max.


51 posted on 07/31/2006 10:47:27 AM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: StJacques

YIKES! The Uber-Gore strikes!


52 posted on 07/31/2006 12:36:32 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: StJacques
Wonder if this doesn't come straight out of the 'Communist Manifesto'?
53 posted on 07/31/2006 12:40:16 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc. 10:2)
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To: StJacques; conservative in nyc; CedarDave; Pikachu_Dad; BunnySlippers; machogirl; NinoFan; ...

Apparently, almost as many Mexicans voted for Obragore as voted for Loretta Sanchez.


54 posted on 07/31/2006 12:43:03 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The W Legacy: $5 Gas, 100 Million Mexicans, Hillary (or worse) for President.)
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To: StJacques

Please add me to your ping list

Thanks,


55 posted on 07/31/2006 1:35:51 PM PDT by be4everfree
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To: StJacques

Yes, this is where the rubber meets the road.


56 posted on 07/31/2006 1:37:56 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (NUTS!)
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To: Bones75

"Communists hate democracy."

I respectfully disagree. They love to use the "will of the people" to advance the collective and crush the individual. They are in terror, most of all, of the individual, for it is the individual that puts the lie to statist and collectivist thinking.


57 posted on 07/31/2006 1:50:32 PM PDT by Panzerlied ("We shall never surrender!")
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To: StJacques

AMLO's aspiring tax-leeching followers are now blocking major roadways in Mexico City, and the electoral court hasn't even ruled against him yet. Here's an analysis (in Spanish) of the (pathetically minimalist) legal protections that the government has at its disposal against such blackmailing traffic blocking (assuming the Left Wing govt. of Mexico City would even bother to enforce them rather than sit back and hope AMLO becomes president so that the heavily unionized Lefties can have more job security):

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/365815.html


58 posted on 07/31/2006 2:05:43 PM PDT by Shuttle Shucker
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To: Bones75

"Communists hate democracy. They don't understand how the people could have not voted to have all their property confiscated and business destroyed....they can't fathom it.. 'that can't be possible.. they (the voters) must be insane or something.. "freedom", "property right?".. padded cell for you pal...-"

We who believe in Limited Government can tolerate the outcomes of elections going against us SO LONG AS Government remains limited.

Those Communists and Socialists who believe in UNLIMITED Government rest all their hopes on political power as the key to organizing the whole state. As such, EVERYTHING is power to them, and thus they cannot tolerate losing.

This attempt to gain power through any means necessary is very chilling.


59 posted on 07/31/2006 2:09:27 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: StJacques; anymouse
The Lefties, against whom Mexico's electoral court hasn't even ruled yet, have already set up blockades like this on major Mexican roadways such as Reforma: Can you imagine if they had tried this stuff in the USA back in 2000? Down in Mexico this act isn't punished that much (yet anyway)...
60 posted on 07/31/2006 2:14:45 PM PDT by Shuttle Shucker
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To: Redleg Duke
What is Obragore basing his conclusion on?

Raw power and disdain for law.

61 posted on 07/31/2006 2:38:42 PM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: StJacques

Please add me to your ping list on Mexico relation issues. Thank you.


62 posted on 07/31/2006 4:31:09 PM PDT by Dan12180
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To: conservative in nyc; CedarDave; Pikachu_Dad; BunnySlippers; machogirl; NinoFan; chilepepper; ...
Note to everyone: all links in this post are "pop-up" links, but all but one are for Spanish language sources"

Okay, I've got an update for all of you on the several news items I see. In one sentence, it appears we have a game of chicken developing between, on the one hand, AMLO's PRD and the Federal District Government (GDF) acting in concert with each other, and on the other, the Federal Government actively seeking to bring the crisis in the center of the city under control. (See my post #47 in this thread for the official statement of the Mexican federal government.) I consider the alignment of the GDF in support of the PRD to be a very dangerous step because it directly raises questions over the exercise of power and the enforcement of the law in the nation's capital.

First; there is no reporting that the GDF in Mexico City has yet to take action to clear the blockades. Cesar Nava Vasquez, the Adjutant Secretary General of PAN, has publicly requested GDF Governor Alejandro Encinas, to actitvate Bando 13 (Proclamation 13), which Lopez Obrador himself pronounced as GDF Governor in December of 2000 to clear the streets of the blockades. To quote from the article "Up to this moment, Nava said, the head of the capital government [Encinas], 'has been an accomplice in this flagrant violation of the law, we hope that he will modify his conduct.'" And earlier today, Bernardo Batiz, a PRD appointee to the position of Procurator General of Justice in the Federal District (PGJDF), stated publicly that "the blockades do not represent a crime" and made clear that "the PGJDF is not going to intervene, unless some crime is committed." This is clear opposition to the announced policy of the Fox government, as my post #47 made clear.

The El Universal newspaper seems to be among those in the Mexican news media who are putting pressure on the GDF to act, and there are reports of many news media organizations calling for action. Evidently the Mexican MSM fears what is happening, something I am noting, and which could be important over the long haul in shaping public opinion. El Universal published its own commentary on the legal justification for the GDF, specifically the Public Security Police (SPP), to act forcefully to clear the streets of the blockades. It is entitled "The SPP-DF can fine and arrest the demonstrators," putting their conclusion right out front. Since I do not know whether the SPP-DF is under the control of the Procurator General of Justice in the Federal District I cannot tell if El Universal is encouraging either internal dissension from within Batiz's own PGJDF office in this or perhaps outright conflict between the PGJDF and an autonomous SPP-DF, but they clearly seem to be reaching out for someone to overrule Batiz and enforce the law.

The Catholic Church is getting quite concerned. It has issued a call for reconciliation and peace, and it is calling for Mexican Bishops everywhere to hold daily prayer services and to walk the streets to be among the people. All this will culminate in an August 6 mass service to be held by Mexican Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera in a Mexico City suburb with other Bishops in attendance. What I note about this story is that El Universal, which is a somewhat liberal newspaper by our standards or a moderate one by Mexico's (the left field wall in Mexican politics is considerably deeper than in this country), put this story up with signficant detail, even naming the individual prayers that were called for and the specific recitation that should follow them. My reading of El Universal and its reporting of the Catholic Church over the past few weeks has shown me that the newspaper generally puts out news about the church in its briefest format, saying only as much as it has to in order to get the story across. But not this time; no, they give extensive detailed reporting. Conclusion: if El Universal is getting religion right now, there is a genuine reason to fear what may happen as this story unfolds. And I'm being very serious here. And late today, the Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Mexico, Antonio Ortega Franco, expressed his confidence that the Electoral Tribunal will not succumb to pressure in reaching its decisions about the election challenges. This amounts to the Catholic Church standing up and calling upon the tribunal to act independently of AMLO and the PRD's announced pressures, and this statement will resonate throughout Mexico to the detriment of the PRD.

AMLO and the PRD are resisting public calls to moderate their behavior. In a statement we American Conservatives will understand, they say "it's Calderon's fault." They have conditioned the dismantling of the blockades upon Calderon's willingness to accept a recount, saying their [the PRD's] priority "is to defend democracy." Never mind that it's not Calderon's decision, but one that instead rests exclusively with the Electoral Tribunal, the PRD asserts it anyway. AMLO himself asserts that "the protests are for democracy and stability." Marcelo Ebrard, the incoming Governor of the Federal District (just elected), offered apologies to the people of Mexico City for the difficulties they will encounter as a result of the encampments, but asked that they understand that what they had to do for the country was more important. He also issued a call for reinforcements to come down to man the encampments. The PRD has also blasted the Mexican media for its reporting of the situation. Leonel Cota Montaño, the national leader of the PRD, attacked the media for its reporting of the crisis, and especially for understating the number of PRD supporters who participated in yesterday's demonstrations (side note: the PRD claims over 1.2 million participated, the news media says less than 800,000) and said that "everything is in the hands of Felipe (Calderon)." There is also some dissension within the PRD over the wisdom of AMLO's current tack, though it does not appear to be widespread. However; Virginia Jaramillo Flores, who is a PRD official heading up the "Cuauhtemoc Borough" of Mexico City, led a delegation to meet with other PRD officials to plead with them to at least dismantle the blockade of the Paseo de la Reforma Avenue, which is a major thoroughfare through the center of the city. She says she still supports AMLO, but believes there must be a dimunition of the congestion caused by the blockade on this particular avenue.

I'm not seeing much on where the PRI stands as a party in all of this, with one very notable exception. The highest-ranking PRI official in the country, Enrique Peña Nieto, who is the Governor of the State of Mexico (which virtually surrounds Mexico City's Federal District), sharply rebuked AMLO's followers for their actions today. Peña Nieto said that "nobody has the right to upset the order and peace that the Mexican people desire, including the followers of the dictates of the For the Good of All coalition." I think Peña Nieto comes as close as we can get to an official PRI spokesman right now, but I'm going to be watching to see if we get an official statement from the party, which they really must come forth to give if they do not want to be seen as bystanders in this crisis.

And finally, there is the PAN Party. You can see from my second paragraph that they are asking the GDF to enforce the law in Mexico City. I'm not seeing much more from PAN leaders besides this and Calderon himself has been silent today. I think PAN is going to rely upon President Vicente Fox to deal with the PRD in Mexico City. Fox spoke to a military gathering today, and I have no idea if this was deliberately planned or mere coincidence, but notice this quote, which I am translating:

"Mexico counts and will always count upon its army to defend the institutions, the sovereignty, the democracy, the law, and justice [of the country] . . . the loyalty, the institutionality, and the professionalism of our army has been essential to the democratic transition for which we Mexicans all fight so hard."

Whether Fox's appearance today before the army was intentionally-planned to coordinate policy with respect to the rule of law in the nation's capital or not, I think it reasonable to assume the subject came up for discussion in private. Fox seems to be moving very carefully here. Ideally, he will want the Electoral Tribunal to rule before he acts so that no one can charge him with interfering with the electoral process, something which he is forbidden to do under Mexican law.

And that about brings us up to date at the moment. I'll keep an eye on what is going down.
63 posted on 07/31/2006 4:54:10 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: StJacques

There were recounts, so at this time the military should whack this effort down.


64 posted on 07/31/2006 4:56:40 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: StJacques

That DOES seem like a strange thing to say to the military now ...


65 posted on 07/31/2006 5:02:14 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (NUTS!)
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To: StJacques

Thanks for the update. It sounds like Obragore has gone wacky, and will do anything to overturn the election results.


66 posted on 07/31/2006 5:06:35 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: StJacques

I cannot possibly express how truly impressed I am with your in-depth knowledge and analysis of this situation. Thank you again. It appears that there is indeed a stand-off with the left apparently not listing to cooler advice, and instead, demanding that the recount be done under conditions that they set, and not under already codified procedures. And in the meantime, they are making the lives of tens of thousands of citizens more difficult.


67 posted on 07/31/2006 5:11:49 PM PDT by Enterprise (Let's not enforce laws that are already on the books, let's just write new laws we won't enforce.)
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To: BunnySlippers
"That DOES seem like a strange thing to say to the military now ..."

I wouldn't exactly say "strange" BunnySlippers. Put yourself in the shoes of AMLO and the PRD reading that speech. That's a warning.
68 posted on 07/31/2006 5:12:12 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: Enterprise
Thanks for the kind words Enterprise.

You wrote:

"And in the meantime, they are making the lives of tens of thousands of citizens more difficult."

I've spent a total of about three and a half months in Mexico City in the 80's and I would estimate that number at the "hundreds of thousands." Mexico City traffic is an unbelievable nightmare. There are over 15 million people in the city and its environs.
69 posted on 07/31/2006 5:15:22 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: Panzerlied
I respectfully disagree. They love to use the "will of the people" to advance the collective and crush the individual

You are 100% CORRECT.

Poor People rule, wealth is to be attacked because it is the source of the problems of the poor.

The pie is only so big and it needs to be divided "fairly".

Never-mind the pie may get bigger, the politicos are either stupid or power hungry.

I vote, power hungry.
70 posted on 07/31/2006 5:16:25 PM PDT by be4everfree
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To: Enterprise

Should read listening - not listing (I hate it when I do that)


71 posted on 07/31/2006 5:25:47 PM PDT by Enterprise (Let's not enforce laws that are already on the books, let's just write new laws we won't enforce.)
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To: StJacques
A resistance camp set up by Obrador supporters on the normally busy Reform in Mexico DF:

How is this NOT illegal???

72 posted on 07/31/2006 5:32:40 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (NUTS!)
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To: BunnySlippers
"How is this NOT illegal???"

There is no question that it is illegal BunnySlippers.

Unless you're among the Left of course, in which case the law comes down to "nuance" and "interpretation." Then it's not illegal because "when weighed against the relative illegality of the government's refusal to do what we demand" it is more legal. The law, you see, is only applicable in its relative sense to the Left.
73 posted on 07/31/2006 5:51:32 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: StJacques

So why are the police not hauling thes people in?

(Hi, SJ)


74 posted on 07/31/2006 6:00:08 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (NUTS!)
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To: StJacques

AMLO is a threat to the US. If he tries anything to take power, kill him.

We don't need a Chavez on our southern border.


75 posted on 07/31/2006 6:15:14 PM PDT by Thunder90
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To: freedumb2003

If civil war breaks out, the US will have to get involved. Problem is that Russia and China would sell (or give) weapons to AMLO and get in bed with him.


76 posted on 07/31/2006 6:16:46 PM PDT by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90
If civil war breaks out, the US will have to get involved. Problem is that Russia and China would sell (or give) weapons to AMLO and get in bed with him.

I don't think Mexico is enough of a prize to rate the risk the Chicoms or the Ruskies would run to interfere.

But Chavez and Castro and a few other super Lefties could become more than a small problem.

I just don't see it coming to that. It will be interesting to see if Fox mobilizes the Federales to open the Zacalo.

I was there just 2 months ago and they had the usual Socialists there DEMANDING Free Housing, etc.

77 posted on 07/31/2006 6:26:19 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (A Conservative will die for individual freedom. A Liberal will kill you for the good of society.)
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To: BunnySlippers
"So why are the police not hauling thes people in?"

Because their bosses are PRD-controlled. That will change if the national government gets directly involved however.


(Hi, BS)
78 posted on 07/31/2006 6:27:04 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: freedumb2003; Shuttle Shucker; livius; All
This is a side note to anyone who may have additional online sources in Mexico they may be aware of that I am not using. I've been doing some online searching and I've found a couple more, and I'm particularly interested in reading information from sources outside Mexico City and especially in northern Mexico. So if anyone knows something they would like to recommend to my attention, please say so.

I really want to see what the editorial opinion of all this will be in northern Mexico.
79 posted on 07/31/2006 6:30:29 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: StJacques

I took the day off work today ... painters painting by house. But I have lots of foreign and domestic news feeds at the office. Will check tomorrow and report back.


80 posted on 07/31/2006 6:34:55 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (NUTS!)
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To: StJacques

I can track El Norte -- but they are pretty Leftist (which is NOT the way Nuevo Leon is).


81 posted on 07/31/2006 6:35:37 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (A Conservative will die for individual freedom. A Liberal will kill you for the good of society.)
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To: freedumb2003
I read somewhere else that El Norte in Monterey has a leftist tilt in their editorial policy.

I have a page of Mexican newspaper links at hispanito.com, that has El Norte included. I'm particularly interested in El Informador in Guadalajara, but I'd be willing to listen to any comments on some of the others on that list. If only Reforma didn't require a subscription. I have a personal policy to deny my web presence to any site that asks money of me to visit it, besides a couple of software development sites I visit that are part of my work.
82 posted on 07/31/2006 6:57:08 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: BunnySlippers

Thank you BunnySlippers. I appreciate that.


83 posted on 07/31/2006 6:58:02 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: StJacques
Thanks ever so much for what you're doing.

Selfless efforts like yours are one of the reasons why FReepers are among the best informed people on the planet.

84 posted on 07/31/2006 7:16:53 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: StJacques

I wonder if Calderon could call AMLO's bluff and end up starting with a much stronger mandate and the reputation as a wise leader?

Here's the idea: He c ould declare that they should wait for the final report from the election commission, but given the closeness, the potential for unrest, and the irresponsible actions of some, he would be willing to agree to an annullment and a revote. With the recent poll showing that 59% of Mexicans view AMLO as having acted irresponsibly, vs. 28% viewing Calderon that way, it seems that a revote would result in a clearer Calderon victory. Or is there a risk that PRI voters would shift to AMLO? Also would have to make sure that the PRD couldn't pull off some major vote fraud this time around.

Perhaps too risky, but also perhaps a chance to appear to be a Solomon if he pulls it off.


85 posted on 07/31/2006 7:29:01 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: okie01
Hey okie01, what's up?

Thanks for the compliments. Would you like me to put you on the ping list? This "Mexican post-election watch" has become something of a personal project and I will be posting more.
86 posted on 07/31/2006 7:39:54 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
That is an interesting hypothetical Diddle E. Squat, but my response would be about exactly what you seem to project in light of what you have posted regarding the post-election slide AMLO has undergone, I think Calderon would surface as the clear favorite.

Regarding the PRI voters, I think they would likely split about 60%-40% in favor of Calderon if they are forced to choose, but remember that if the election is annulled all the candidates, including the PRI's Roberto Madrazo, will be back on the ballot. PRI voters are still ubiquitously spread out across the country, but they are not well-disposed to disorder, and that is what AMLO represents, so I expect that the majority of PRI voters who would break ranks would do so out of fear of AMLO more than anything else. AMLO's potential voters among the PRI are those who remain in the southern and central parts of the country and among the old, steadfast partisans of the PRI who are still grinding their teeth at PAN for taking them out of control. But they are not very large in numbers.

And PRD vote fraud is the most untalked-about issue of all. They undoubtedly are guilty of it in some of the precincts in the Yucatan states and perhaps in the central part of the country too. PAN has presented challenges to some of the returns in these areas to the Electoral Tribunal. But to sum up my response on that issue, I don't think it will be as likely as many might think. One of the reasons there was so little vote fraud this time around, is that you had a truly competitive race and everyone was watching everybody else. It worked, in spite of what AMLO claims to the contrary.
87 posted on 07/31/2006 7:50:31 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: freedumb2003; Shuttle Shucker; livius
I've definitely overlooked Mexico City's Cronica de Hoy. I have found a wonderful editorial on Lopez Obrador entitled "One Month Ahead" (Un mes por delante).

The guy nails AMLO pretty hard. Let me quote one paragraph (translated):

"The losing candidate [Lopez Obrador], who says he is the winner, pretends to influence the Tribunal so that it alters that which he did not obtain at the ballot box. He says that Calderon will be spurious because he does not have a majority count, and makes of his minority a fantastic regressive count which according to his results supports him more. The preceding is equivalent to believing that two counts for more than three. He also says that Calderon does not have moral authority. He supposes, in his inverse logic, that he does have it because of the way his alternative project for the nation reveals itself: no different public policies, no reform legislation, no governmental innovation. No. A different nation: legitimacy for the poor over the rich; for the people over the super rich; for the pure left over the Mephistophelian right."

I think I'm going to pay closer attention to this paper at the very least. I did read a good editorial in the Guadalajara paper, but it seems to me that they are not very long on editorials. I'm still looking for more sources from northern Mexico.
88 posted on 07/31/2006 8:46:11 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: StJacques
Northern Newspapers: http://www.directory.com.mx/newspapers Meanwhile, perhaps a fellow Leftie socked AMLO today? This picture's now front page news on El Universal: Hopefully it came from a fellow PRDista. Word of that could cause his movement to fragment as huelgistas realize that AMLO won't necessarily remember their supportive efforts any more than he was loyal to the PRDista who hit him.
89 posted on 08/01/2006 9:53:31 AM PDT by Shuttle Shucker
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To: Shuttle Shucker

Yeah, I got that, I'm about to post a larger version of it in a thread I will put up right after this post.


90 posted on 08/01/2006 10:46:55 AM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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