Are These the End Times? (Newsweek Interviews Tim LaHaye)

Newsweek ^ | August 2, 2006 | Brian Braker

[rightwingintelligentsia]

When Tim LaHaye talks, the faithful listen—by the millions. The conservative Protestant minister is the coauthor of the wildly popular apocalyptic “Left Behind” novels. The controversial books, which have sold more than 60 million copies, depict the biblical end of the world: the Christian eschatology of the upheaval that precedes the second coming of Jesus Christ, known also as “end times.” LaHaye recently spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Brian Braiker about why he believes the events currently unfolding in the Middle East reflect biblical prophesy.

[Momaw Nadon]

I can't believe that a thread called "Are These the End Times?" has gone for over 100 posts without even one reference to this:

Boston Red Sox win the World Series!

[woollyone]

Obsession may be a disease in the Body of Christ, but legalism is the lethal cancer that draws men away from God's grace and mercy and imposes the works-based piousness that kills faith and burden's men with impossible standards to live by that originate from the flesh of man, or the pit of hell, and only serve to exhalt man and his pride.

Legalism can quickly be sniffed out when we hear statements sounding such as this..."REAL Christians dontchaknow ALWAYS do this...", or, "REAL Christians dontchaknow NEVER do this...". Which is what you implied in your post. That is what I was addressing to you.

So your comment; "...mark of a serious Christian is that he doesn't have an elaborate endtime scenario..." lends itself to a legalistic prespective as you attempt to burden other believers with how they are to think and act...according to YOUR self-styled standards.

For cying out loud, THE BIBLE CONSISTNETLY TEACHES A "SERIOUS ENDTIME SCENARIO"...and Jesus taught a "SERIOUS ENDTIME SCENARIO"!

By your personal lofty standards of legalism, even John, Paul, Timothy, & Titus weren't SERIOUS CHRISTIANS. You come across sounding as though anyone who seriously studies end time prophecy is somehow less SERIOUS of a Christian than you are. THAT my friend is legalism in black and white.

Any other self-designed laws that you have made up that the brethren must adhere to in order to be "serious Christians" in your eyes?

Thankfully, we don't have to live by the rules of men (as the Pharisees imposed, when they burdended men with so many countlees rules that they stumbled men from seeing God's grace), but we live by the Spirit of God Who lives in us and by His grace and mercy. Legalism was vanquished at the cross.

I give thanks and agree with Paul when he wrote; "By the grace of God, I am what I am...".

So please be careful, lest you stumble someone.

Peace

[wideawake]

When we are talking bible, the earth is gone...

Yes the earth is gone, but the dust of which it was made is not - it is no longer the earth, it is formless rubble.

Again to the Greek, the word used is luomenwn "loosed", "unbound", "disintegrated", etc.

[Aquinasfan]

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Personally, I don't think so. Here's why--Everything He created is good. Why? Because He says it is.

This is an important point.

"Good" is a convertible term with "one," "true," "beautiful," and "being." So all things that exist are good, at least in the fact of their existence. In this sense, even the devil is good, since he possesses existence.

God Himself is goodness and existence itself. His Creation participates in His goodness and existence. "Goodness" is not a label attached to things, but what all things are, at least inasmuch as they exist.

However, what if He decides that destruction of His creation is also good?

This is the crux of the issue. Logically, can a just and good God annihilate that which is good? This seems like a contradiction to me.

After all--He did destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, the Canaanites, etc. Granted--in those examples, He was destroying that whach had fallen, but the concept remains the same.

I think there are two issues of justice here, God's justice with regard to sinful people and God's justice with respect to His Creation. As Christians, we know that God does not annihilate any souls, even the souls of those condemned to hell for eternity. But what should be the fate of the world? Certainly, we know that Creation became disordered through the sin of Adam, so Creation itself is fallen. So the question arises, which act is more appropriate to an all-good God, the annihilation of His fallen Creation, which possesses goodness in its existence, (at the very least) or the transformation of His Creation?

What is "good" upon creation, may not remain "good" throughout history, thus requiring its destruction.

Is destruction the only option? Does it follow necessarily? Or is the transformation of His creation more just, noble and appropriate?

[Marcaurelio]

"When Tim LaHaye talks, the DUPED listen—by the millions."

Hey, can I use that as my tag line? I'll give you credit for it.

Thanks.

[Rutles4Ever]

the Left Behind series has spread the Gospel to many.

As opposed to ...um ... the Bible? Money is not evil. The LOVE of money is evil.

Since LaHaye is a millionaire many times over, and financially secure for many generations - and since this is such an important tool for spreading the Gospel (as you say), I assume he's going forego royalties on the next book so the publisher can sell to the public at cost?

Additionally, the Left Behind series specifically excludes Catholics from this so-called rapture. Sure - love thy neighbor, and all that good Gospel stuff.

[wideawake]

It's hardly a matter of legalism to call for a reality check.

Legalism is precisely what I protest: the notion that it is somehow obligatory for Christians to worry themselves calculating and prognosticating the future when Christ gave us a failsafe formula for being prepared for the end: always go about your business with godliness and there will be nothing to fear.

[Rutles4Ever]

But why let Scripture get in the way of one's assumptions and biases! /sar

Er - er -- why not quote something if you say it's there. Then provide context (oh, woops! I'm not a literalist, so it's not going to matter).

As for bias, maybe you can figure out why Tim LaHaye's version of the rapture doesn't include Catholics. Hmmm, bias? Don't hurt your back....

[JamesP81]

The Bible inidcates that the world's population in this era will be reduced by 1/3 to 2/3.

Reducing the current world population to 500,000,000 from present levels would require a death rate in excess of 80%. I believe what the Bible says is true, but this 500,000,000 crowd sounds like a bunch of wackjobs to me.

[wideawake]

I don't believe it necessarily follows - but I agree with the implication.

After all, hell will not cease to exist.

[JamesP81]

"Just" Scripture. The generation that sees Israel become a nation again in a day after the 70 AD dispersion is to see the rest of the End Times Prophecies come to pass as well.

In that particular prophecy, Christ uses the word 'generation'. Every other time he uses the greek word for generation he is uniformly referring to a people, or a nation, or a tribe. I think the intepretation that all the adult males alive when Israel was formed will see the end of time is an incorrect interpretation and not what Christ was saying. What I believe the Lord was saying in this prophecy is that once Israel is a nation again, she will never pass away before the end comes.

How may times have the muslims tried to destroy Israel, and how many times has it worked?

[auggy]

This could be the big one. With what I know about the bible, time is almost up. The generation of 1949 shall not die..
A generation of advanced technology...that we are.

[Aquinasfan]

The Catholic Encyclopedia itself indicates that these passages are much debated, but, as a Catholic, I submit myself to the constant (or dominant) Church teaching (and capital "T" Tradition and small "t" tradition) regarding various theological and philosophical topics, including the end times.

Your interpretation of Scripture begs the question as to the authority of Scripture itself.

Proving Inspiration

[Rutles4Ever]

Uhhhhh, hello?

Not knowing the day or hour is

DIFFERENT

from knowing the year, season, era!!!!

An era can last thousands of years. That's a pretty wide target to hit.

4. There are dozens upon dozens of specifics in our era that never occurred before at all and certainly never occurred before in concert.

Really! I though there was nothing new under the sun. Are you sure you're a literalist?

.The degree of MANY SPECIFICS lining up with Biblical prophecies literally to the letter has never occurred before in all history and certainly not after the AD 70 dispersion.

You site nothing in scripture, just theories based on faulty exegesis of scripture.

[woollyone]

Rats!...I KNEW someone was gonna pull out that SLAM-DUNK!

[TomSmedley]

I got a fund-raising call yesterday from Bev LaHaye's group CWA (Concerned Women for American.) I commended the group on its work, politely pled poverty, and said, "Bev LaHaye is the one with the testosterone in the family." The caller chuckled.

While Tim has been banging his pathetic "sky is falling!" drum for the last couple of decades, Bev has actually taken steps to defend "the crown rights of King Jesus" in our land.

[ShadowAce]

Is destruction the only option? Does it follow necessarily? Or is the transformation of His creation more just, noble and appropriate?

I honestly don't know if destruction is the only option. I would guess that--God being God, after all--He could do whatever pleased Him. However, I see His proclamation of creation being good as "suitable" for His ultimate creation--man. Thus, the physical creation of Earth and the Universe holds no intrinsic value.

Whether that is true or not, I don't know. I do know I can rest easy knowing that that He has everything under control. :)

[CindyDawg]

Uhh. In his 1st book, I believe the pope was missing too:')

[Rutles4Ever]

Awesome. That's what matters. Christ isn't going to ask us to present Him with bumper stickers as proof we love Him. It's what we do for others that counts.

[TomSmedley]

You guys are missing one key thing. The return of the nation of Israel to the Middle East.

I'm sorry, but what does the establishment of an anti-christian socialist political order "over there" have to do with anything?

Now, I'm keeping my mind open, and not dwelling on it too much, because we need to be about the Lord's work until the last moment, however, we are also instructed to watch for these things to happen. We cannot know the hour or the day, be we may know the season.

To quote the old joke --

• "Tonto! We are surrounded by Indians!"
• "What you mean 'we,' paleface?"

The Olivet discourse was directed to a specific group of hearers. Those who heard and heeded headed for the hills in 70 AD, escaping with their lives, alone. They are the "we" who Jesus addressed, not us.