Posted on 08/18/2006 7:35:28 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
Rock, Paper and Scissors was a FR post when a thread on the Trinity was discussed. I suggest the artist is a lurker.
"PCUSA lurched way, way, WAY out to the left. Now, they're nothing but moonbats, and they're hemorhagging members."
Whats sad is the PCUSA ministers cannot leave without losing their retirement. I know a couple that continue to fight to bring some sanity but they are losing the battle.
What does PCA stand for? Presbyterian Church America?
One of my dearest friends is a UMC minister. He's rock solid in reformed theology - he was a student of R.C. Sproul's. He's stuck in the same position - just a few years to go to retirement. He can't afford to leave the UMC, although I keep trying to persuade him to do so.
Presbyterian Church in America
G-d bless you!
I have been utterly perplexed and depressed about the passive attitude of the otherwise decent-seeming minister at the local Presby church. This explains EVERYTHING.
It's about the Benjamins, not about Christ.
"It's about the Benjamins, not about Christ."
Unfortunately thats the way it is in many churches and not just PCUSA. Churches are made up of people and people generally suck. In this case the PCUSA denomination keeps ministers from leaving by holding them hostage financially.
Other stats that are depressing are roughly 2/3rds of ministers in general don't beleive Jesus is the Son of God. Somewhere around there also don't necessarily beleive the Bible is the pure word of God.
These people generally became ministers because they wanted to help people and not because of their faith.
I find this oddly reassuring. I *had* been afraid that the local minister was a glib, personable, closet anti-semite. Now I see him as a somewhat pitiful figure, beholden to the folks who'll authorize his pension.
As a dedicated member of the Episco-Baalian church of the USA i am PO'd that we did not publish this book (sarc)
Sick! Nothing like using the church to forward your own personal political agenda! What's next? Is the PCA going to install money changers in the church lobby?
These kinds of folks typically are not even Christians.
And I'm a Presbyterian.
Which one? I attended MPPC in Menlo Park when I was in college and it was a pretty good church with solid teaching (though that was a long time ago). There was talk of leaving the PCUSA but they didn't want to face the fight over their property. The biggest problem with being a part of a church like PCUSA is that when you leave, they still technically own the property and the church building and it takes a monster court fight to wrest control from them. Of course if they cared more about truth than their building they'd just walk away which is what many havge done.
I agree with what someone else said on this thread. The PCUSA is an apostate church. They are "post-Christian" which is not really Christian at all. (This isn't to say that there aren't many fine Christian people and pastors in the PCUSA, but the denomination is no longer teaching Christian truth. Other bodies like the PCA and the PEC are much more doctrinally sound, faithful bodies.
The same thing happened to the Lutherans. In the mid-70's the big church was the LCMS and it split when the liberals in that body walked away with about a third of the membership and merged with several smaller Lutheran bodies to form the ELCA. The really tragic thing is that at the time the bulk of them were still pretty solid, but there were some real lefties in the mix who took the church in a scary direction. At the same time, the remnant in the LCMS (which was a very solid body doctrinally) got a bit reactionary and, I believe have OVER-reacted to the point of being too insular and losing site of the Great Commission. In total it's been a tragedy for Lutheranism in North America as a whole.
That's where the doctrine of the visible and invisible church comes into it's own.
Wheat and tares methinks
They ought to figure out a way to sue for a settlement on their retirement. They deserve to be able to collect on whatever they have paid in or earned so far. Believe me, I know it would not be hard with no guarantee of eventual success, but it ought to be at least possible. Perhaps under pressure, the denomination would agree to settle.
That same situation may face the faithful clergy in my own denomination before too many years pass. A denomination owes its clergy for the years they have served. There should be legal recourse to keep them from being cheated out of their retirement.
Kirk of the Hills, Tulsa.
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