Rim Shot
Click the Pic J
Posted on 09/02/2006 1:28:10 PM PDT by wagglebee
I honestly believe it was a tribe that would later become the Mexica. Very hard to convince anyone to believe me.
...and for dessert, lady fingers!
[rimshot!]
Hey, quit complainin', it *could* have been a Helen Thomas joke.
Rim Shot
Click the Pic J
Good info at that link!
:') I love that.
I was told by distant relatives of my wife that racism is rampant in Mexico. Indians have been conditioned to not even bother to apply for jobs, as the European Mexicans will not hire them.
A;; hail the Spanish Conquistadores and their helpmates, the Roman Catholic Church!
You forgot to point out that all cultures are relatively equal. Some of these people are so judgemental, it could tear your heart out.
"I'm sure the Aztecs had them beat."
Yes they certainly did. I read the Bernal Diaz book over 40 years ago when I was studying in Mexico City. Also read Cortez's 5 letters to King Carlos of Spain, the same summer, both in Spanish. The number of captive warriors sacrificed was horrendous. In the recent past an Aztec prime minister had persuaded the emperor to make "flowery wars" a matter of state policy to raid and capture neighboring peoples. He said something like "let the Tlaxcalens be our tortillas." The sacrificed were cut up an distributed to the populace which had very little high quality protein in their diet. Many tens of thousands of people were killed and eaten.
Regarding the sacrifice of children to the rain god, Tlaloc, this is true. Aztecs may have picked it up from the Mayans. A child with a double whorl in the hair at the top of the head was considered the best as the double whorl was like the swirl of clouds. Aztec citizens were expected to willing give up their family members who were chosen for sacrificial honors.
An interesting novel that deals with the immediate post conquest period is "Heart of Jade" by Salvador Madariaga.
Now that we have established that Aztecs and Incas were not adverse to religious slaughter, let us look at the Spanish and other Europeans. Anyone who thinks so highly of the Spanish should read up on the history of the Inquisition, the expulsion of the Jews and the Moors, and the treatment of Conversos. Count Dracula was also called Vlad the Impaler, because he discouraged the advance of the Ottoman Empire into Europe by impaling something like 9,000 muslim invaders after a victory. Check out the killing rates on civilians of the Hundred Years War, and the Thirty Years War; these were Catholic/Protestant conflicts. Killings for religion in England by "Bloody" Mary, and to a lesser extent, Queen Elizabeth, are nothing to make us proud.
In a final note, Cortez made excellent use of the angry Tlaxcalans and other Aztec victim people to defeat the Aztecs. I think the Tlaxcalans provided something like 100,000 to 200,000 warriors to the fight.
I just tried to post this an all it did was jump. Will try again, sorry if I double post.
Check out my comment #71, and pardon my misspelling of Tlaxcalans. I also meant to post to Miss Marple and wagglebee when I posted that but couldn't remember how to spell the names.
A probably significan factor in the French Revolution was the major eruption in Iceland of the Laki Fissure in 1783, it caused serious climatic disturbance in all of Europe, and our very own Ambassador Benjamin Franklin attributed this strange weather to an eruption in Iceland.
This weather caused serious crop failures and famine for several years. It may have contributed to Ergot fungus as well.
gringos?
Your racism is showing.
If I had to choose a culture to be on my southern border, I prefer one of Roman Catholicism (albeit slightly modified in some areas) versus one whose religion requires human, particularly child, sacrifice.
I suppose that's fairly parochial and Euro-centric of me, but there you have it.
I think I'll bid for the knife sharpening concession. [I wish to do my part - lol]
The oppression of the technologically and politically primitive by the technologically and politically powerful (the oppression of the weak by the strong) --- seizure of land and wealth, massacre of the resisters, enslavement of the survivors--- is just about a constant in human history. You'll find it in the history of just about every race, tribe, culture and nation.
The really different thing about the Spanish conquest of the New World was the extent to which there was internal dissent and internal struggle amongst the Spanish, in favor of the rights of the indigenous people and against their enslavement.
It's 6,000 miles from Mesoamerica to Spain --- very difficult miles in the 16th century --- and effective communication, let alone government, from Madrid to Mexico City was very limited and at time spractically impossible. Nevertheless, Queen Isabella and subsequent monarchs tried to curb or limit the enslavement of the indigenous people of the New World.
Theologians at Spanish Universities reasoned that the people of the New World had souls; were created, like all men, in the image and likeness of God; and possessed natural rights, inluding the right to personal liberty. Forceful men like Bartolome de las Casas and Turibius of Mongrovejo spent their lifetimes attempting to protect Indians from the depredations of the Spanish conquistradores: the voice of Spanish Catholic conscience was a constant,and I mean constant challenge and irritant to those in power.
The principles worked out by people like Francisco Vitoria, to try to define just and peaceful relations between Spain and the civilizations she encountered, form the foundation for modern thinking on human rights and international law.
That's what's different about Christian civilization. Not the absence of sin, but the persistent presence of a new level of critical reflection, internal self-criticism and conscience.
Many people think that ergotism was a big factor in the Salem witch hunt.
I'm going to buy a tour bus and do guided tours of Fort Marcy Park.
*curtsy*
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