Posted on 10/25/2006 11:10:46 AM PDT by Blackirish
As the Republican base fragments and Christian conservatives consider a “fast” from politics, the polling data point to a mid-term Republican thumping. Less than two weeks from now, Republicans will begin their post-mortem soul searching. And as the corpses of their House and Senate majorities grow cold, so should Karl Rove’s 2006 campaign strategy.
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
We'd better not lose either House or we'll face a new 9/11 all over again. Only the next time will likely be a whole lot worse.
You see, that is why you should not toss the proscience posters off the bus so to speak.
We are not the enemy, politically we are with you probably 95%, we are conservatives, believe it or not.
The problem is the fact you are attempting to ban us from the conservative cause, and are claiming that you don't need us, because we differ with you in your literalism.
You do need us, we are not a small minorioty within the conservative movement, we are a rather large demographic, and always have been.
Pelosi scares me to death, the lady is a power freak, and if she ever gets the reigns of power, we are all pretty much screwed.
I believe that if the Dem's lose this election, and the presidential election in 2008, it will finish that party off. I hope they run Clinton in 2008, she has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the presidency, it would be the biggest mistake the Dem's could make, and it would be a sucide run for the party.
Most of the American people are not stupid, and Pelosi scares them, and Clinton scares them, just as much as the 2 of them scare us.
Hell no. The only thing the anti-science types do well is make idiots out of themselves. They're an embarrassment to freepers, to conservatives, and to the GOP. Their insincerity--I mean their blatant repetitive lying and refusal to read or learn--is patently obvious to anyone who reads a few crevo threads. I work in a biochem department, and the general consensus there is that conservatives are just but a bunch of nutjobs who think science is some big anti-Christian conspiracy. Trust me, conservatives desperately need folks like you and Ich and PH to show that the general consensus is wrong. You guys do excellent work.
That is a cop out. At one time the belief that the Earth was flat was considered scientific and religious fact and was taught in schools. That view was discarded as irrefutable proof was presented to discredit it and , especially the religious faction, had no choice but to adapt. It was a long and painful process BUT it was based on competing ideas and not decided in courtrooms. That is the difference I see with ToE. That is science that has been dictated not by debate in the realm of ideas but in courts that have decided that there is no room for competing dogma. Make no mistake that many in the evolution camp are just as dogmatic in their defense of their science as the most rigid fundamentalist creationist. I see it on this very thread.
Then you should have no problem naming it.
There are plenty of cases in the world around us where order and complexity are known to be the direct result of intelligence;...
Name one
...but nowhere can it be shown that order and complextiy can arise with out an intelligent source, or to put it another way, where the source is known and shown to be non-intelligent.
That isn't positive evidence, it is asking somebody to prove a negative, which is a logical fallacy.
To use nature itself, like snowflake or crystal formation, as evidence that order and complexity can arise from natural or non-intelligent sources, presupposes that there was no ID behind the universe to begin with and that's what you're trying to establish.
No, actually, the supernatural is not a consideration in the sciences. Once again you are asking science to prove a negative. What is YOUR evidence? What evidence is there for ID?
You can't assume the conclusion to prove it.
Evolution is a theory that explains the evidence, and it came about as a result of the evidence. The conclusion came after the data, not before. What you are claiming is just plain wrong.
If order and complexity are not evidence for intelligence or design...(snip the rest)
Why is it evidence? Listen to yourself. "If order and complexity are NOT evidence, then science has nothing on which it can be based..."(snip again)
You are again trying to force science to prove a negative. I am asking what is your POSITIVE evidence of ID. What data is there to support your position? Try to do it without employing one logical fallacy after another next time, please? Or at least use other fallacies. The same one over and over again is a bit redundant.
I was "FREEPING", all alone, on my ownsome, long before ( several decades, to be exact ), there was ever a FR or even computers outside of enormous rooms. And some of them could have become life threatening, but being young, one doesn't always think about that. LOL
The really savage Libertarian flame wars took place here before you joined; though there still are some of those threads ( at a much lesser decibel ) on FR today.
I suggest that stop trying to be funny. You just might not attract unwanted negative attention that way.
But yes, this thread is somewhat akin to "torture"; though what you wrote really doesn't mean the same thing. Go look up the meaning of the word "tortuous". LOL
I thought it made a good pun.
This thread has made a long and winding road.
This is NO TIME to go wobbly and all of us MUST do whatever it takes, to make sure and certain that we don't lose either House.
Have I really pissed you off that much? Sheesh.
It is not an academic challenge. There is absolutely no data to back it up. None.
I don't recall tossing anything related to science off of any bus.
We are not the enemy, politically we are with you probably 95%, we are conservatives, believe it or not.
Enemy is way too strong of a word with respect to disagreements on FR.
The problem is the fact you are attempting to ban us from the conservative cause, and are claiming that you don't need us, because we differ with you in your literalism.
I don't have the power to "ban" anyone, and I've not made any such claim.
You do need us, we are not a small minorioty within the conservative movement, we are a rather large demographic, and always have been.
I've never made any claims to the contrary.
Pelosi scares me to death, the lady is a power freak, and if she ever gets the reigns of power, we are all pretty much screwed.
Pelosi, IMHO, is just as dangerous to this country as AQ.
I believe that if the Dem's lose this election, and the presidential election in 2008, it will finish that party off. I hope they run Clinton in 2008, she has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the presidency, it would be the biggest mistake the Dem's could make, and it would be a sucide run for the party.
I pray that you are right.
Most of the American people are not stupid, and Pelosi scares them, and Clinton scares them, just as much as the 2 of them scare us.
I wish I had as much faith in the American Sheople as you seem to. The reason we have such a split in this country is that too many people rely too heavily on being told what to think, instead of finding things out on their own.
You have that completely opposite, the Theory of Evolution has proven itself in the scientific venue, it has done it over and over again, through new discoveries, new evidence and peer review.
ID has done none of that, it makes no predictions, it has not been peer reviewed, it has no evidence, it was attempted to force it into science class via popularism, not scientific validity.
Why has ID not attempted experiments, why has it not made predictions, why has it not been willing to be peer reviewed, because it is not scientific, and never has been.
The reason that it went to court, is because it was trying to bring itself into a science class, before being scientifically vetted, it was trying to sneak in the back door, instead of doing what all scientific theories that are taught in a science class must do.
There is no competition to evolution, because there is no other theory or hypothesis that explains the evidence as well, or scientifically. Id does none of that, and again, attempted to sneak in the back door.
Any scientifically verifiable theory, should be willing to be scientifically vetted, why is ID above this?
All of this stupid crevo V Darwin garbage really and truly has NO business here and most assuredly NOT on this thread! You want to yell at each other about that topic? TAKE IT TO A DIFFERENT THREAD!
It's getting to the point, here, where politics is an after thought. Stop hijacking threads!
Hell the computer you are typing on is a product of intelligent design. When it comes to the complexities of nature is it unreasonable to look at it and ask how so much could have been accidentally brought into being? Is that not a worthy area of scientific inquiry? Why limit yourselves the mechanics?
Not to be needlessly contrary, but I think the side track this thread took is actually topical for this thread.
Now, do you want to discuss the actual topic of this thread, or not?
Your admonitions appear to be falling on deaf ears (or blind eyes as the case may be). It would be nice if they took their evo/ID party crashing to the smokey back room where it belongs.
Now, either engage with me on the topic of this thread, or go bother someone else.
I made some generalizations in that post, and I apologize.
Your last statement about the American Sheeple is dead on.
The problem as I see it, is that about 45% of the American population now pays no taxes, and that 45% most likely is the recipient of some government program.
We need to reverse this trend, and quickly, if that number ever goes over 50%, the United States as a constitutional Republic is done, there is no way that we will ever get it back.
We not only must keep the Republicans in power, we must also convince them to come back to the constitutional roots of the Federal Government. Otherwise, it's over, because as soon as half or a majority in this country get something from the government, we will never rise out of it.
Don't push me; you will NOT like the reply. And FWIW, you're still wrong and out of touch with reality.
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