Skip to comments.Medal Shortage (An incensed Vietnam Vet blasts the Pentagon)
Posted on 02/02/2007 3:47:35 PM PST by DTogo
Circulating somewhere in the Pentagon is a list of dozens of soldiers and Marines who committed acts of supreme valor during the war in Iraq. One serviceman, for example, charged a row of Republican Guards under fire, killing 20 enemy soldiers. At least three others jumped on grenades to save their brothers. Yet relatively few medals have been issued in the 4-year-old war. The Medal of Honor, for instance, the highest citation a soldier or Marine can receive, has been handed out only twice since the war began, both times posthumously. By comparison, the military gave 245 Medals of Honor to combatants in Vietnam and 464 to veterans of World War II. Lesser medals, like the Distinguished Service Cross, have also been hard to come by for Iraq servicemen.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
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Bump = Will the Democrats recommend medals? If so, will they be for Soldiers and Marines?
Only to those who "speak out" against the war (and the CiC).
What is the holdup. If their Commanders send in the reports and they are eligible for these medals they should be given as soon as possible.
Don't fall for this pap.
This is agitprop from newsweek to sow
discontent. Watch your back's people,
the revolutionary socialist democrat party
is moving to make up the time they have
lost for six years and the socialist
juggernaut is blowing an ill wind...
when you look at the conduct of the war, the Haditha and Hamandia prosecutions, the rules of engagement, now this nonsense - I'm telling you, there is some cabal of clinton holdovers inside the pentagon and the military hierarchy.
I often wonder why there is no (July 4th) ticker-tape parade for our heroes in New York City, with the heroes of New York City.
I didn't read it that way.
I have been told by soldiers coming back that Battalion Commanders and up are refusing to award the deserving...common theme heard; "junior enlisted are not going to receive Silver Stars or Bronze Stars with "V"..."
hey, when my husbands unit returned from the Iraq all the Battalion commanders were awarded Bronze Stars...
Any stats for an accurate comparison? If you compared the number of men in combat between World War II and the Iraq war, the numbers don't seem particularly low. Or compare combat fatalities as a measure of risk.
I'll try to pull some real numbers later this evening.
A specific comment on the jumping on grenades. Max Cleland did that. Does he deserve an MoH? He got a Silver Star and a Bronze Star, I'm not sure what he got for the grenade, and what he got for other acts.
This ain't Vietnam. It's not the Pusan perimeter. It is not Bastonge or Tarawa. We're occupying a country where there are many terrorists. It is dangerous, and there is some fighting, but most of the dying is not done by remote control. It's tough to justify the Silver Star, Navy Cross or CMOH in this environment. There are PLENTY of Bronze Star w/V-devices being awarded.
The CSS units I'm familiar with are handing out Bronze Stars like candy; the V devices typically have to be earned. Also, there is such a thing as an ARCOM with a V device; we should make more use of it.
Seriously. "Newsweek"? You trust them?
Maybe if it was allowed to be fought like WWII, it would be mostly over by now.
You are 100% correct. Remember, the French had Vietnam under control when they were letting German soldiers wearing French Foriegn Legion uniforms fight it for them. My worry is that we are feminizing the Army and Marines using this was as a benchmark. This war...my war...doesn't hold a candle to what my older cousins, father and great-...saw in 1915, 1943, 1952, 1967...not even close
The grenade with Cleland was one he dropped. It wasn't an enemy grenade if I'm correct.
The problem is precedent. If a soldier earns a MOH for jumping on a grenade to save his buddies in Vietnam, why doesn't a soldier today who does the same thing not get a MOH.
Awards are a big morale issue. I have no doubt you have lower enlisted soldiers who are doing supply runs throughout Iraq. They rotate home and don't get an award, but a staff officer at Battalion and Brigade will get a Bronze Star even though they never left the compound.
We had this issue back in the first Gulf war. Another LT thought my boss deserved his Silver Star for the great job he did. I said my boss is the S3 of the battalion, all those great jobs he did are his duties as the S3. He did his job. He did a great job and it should reflect on his OER but as for the award, I didn't think so.
As for being as bad as Vietnam, I cant answer that. I'm sure we might have a soldier on FR who has been to Vietnam and Iraq.
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't recall the sequence.
Here are some numbers (rounded):
World War II
Total military force: 16.3 million
Combat Deaths: 292,000
Total force: 8.7 million
Combat deaths: 47,000
Based on the numbers, it doesn't look like MoH levels for Iraq are out of line.
Of course, there are always some undeserved medals given.
You are correct, every other person leaves with a bronze star and that is making them almost meaningless; they are pretty much the "standard" for PCS. In my opinion, the "V" device, even on an Arcom says much more. Awards for valor are an entirely different things.
Some months ago Army Times ran a story about this with statisics for the various branches of the service (this week's edition also has some awards stats): the one thing that struck me was that the Navy has awarded about a dozen Navy Crosses while the Army has given out three DSCs (but a lot more Silver Stars). Even taking into account that most of those Navy Crosses go to Marines, there is still a serious disparity there. As for my Cav Squadron, all the leadership got meritorious Bronze Stars (to include platoon leaders, troop commanders, first sergeants and many platoon sergeants) but not a single award for valor that I know of. We spent a year in theater and had five killed. Combat in Iraq is different than previous wars, but you can't tell me that some of our soldiers didn't distinguish themselves.
You didn't list how many MOH per war. I can't tell if its out of line.
Sorry, from the Newsweek story excerpted at the start of the thread, WWII - 464, VietNam - 245 Iraq, so far, 2.
The best recognition we can offer our warrior heroes, is to respect and SUPPORT the effort in which they have invested their lives..
If the Congress and the people can not stand with our warriors and give them the mission, moral support, ROEs and material support required to WIN THE WAR --- then we should pull them back home and let the enemy come to us...
At least when we're fighting on our own soil - which most leftists seem to prefer -- we will have the opportunity to kill off a lot of the leftist, cowardly sonsuvbitches and other "enemies within"....
Arm thy self neighbor --- it's coming soon.