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Never-seen battle in Indian skies (Mig-35 vs Super Hornet)
The Telegraph,India ^ | Monday, February 12, 2007 | ANIL BUDUR LULLA

Posted on 02/11/2007 11:06:41 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Never-seen battle in sky

ANIL BUDUR LULLA

The F/A-18 F Super Hornet and the MiG-35 Bangalore, Feb. 11: A brilliant blue-and-red streak in the sky, the MiG-35 climbs 90 degrees towards the sun, changes its mind and does a vertical U-turn, screaming 90 degrees towards earth. It’s still in one piece.

Moments later, the grey F/A-18 F Super Hornet shoots sunwards like a bullet after a short take-off, levels at 8,000 feet, floats, turns left, shows its dual engines just above the gaping audience, goes into attack mode and swivels — all in one smooth motion.

“It’s like nothing we’ve seen before,” says a defence ministry official who will sit in judgement with a clutch of pilots when the Indian Air Force decides on the aircraft it will settle for in its order of 126 multi-role combat fighters.

The twin-engined MiG-35 and Super Hornet are clearly in a different league. And on the evidence of the demonstrations in Yalahanka, erstwhile Cold War rivals Russia and the US are pulling out all stops.

Boeing’s Michael E. Rietz, the India programme manager for F/A-18F business, says the Hornet boasts of the latest radar. The Electronically Scanned Array (Aesa) radar is also used by the US Navy.

“This is the right aircraft for establishing air dominance. It does not require any platform to support it and carries missiles for its own protection,” he says.

More important, Boeing will let the planes be made under licence in India, a first for the F/A-18 programme.

Asked how the aircraft compares to the MiG-35, Rietz says: “Survivability is the key. While it is a lethal machine, we take pride in the Super Hornets, which avoid being seen, hit and killed.”

The biggest advantage is that the Hornet’s wings can be folded, enabling it to operate from aircraft carriers.

The Russians, on the other hand, are playing on a strong wicket. They never fail to emphasise their 44-year association with India. IAF pilots are familiar with the nuts and bolts of Russian systems.

The MiG-35 also has the Aesa radar specifically made for the Indian programme.

Referred to as the generation 4 ++ aircraft, MiG-35 versions on show here were arguably the most eye-catching.

The Russians rarely fail to advertise the MiG-35’s thrust vector control that allows the aircraft to undertake the breathtaking “cobra” manoeuvre. The aircraft stalls in mid-flight, nose at 90 degrees like a cobra ready to strike, and slides backwards. In a real dogfight, such a move can turn the hunted into the hunter.

Back to the Indian official who will be among those who sit in judgement. “I will not look at aerobatics alone,” he says. “I’ll look at what’s inside…. I will look at the price and I will look at history.”

“It’s probably comparable to buying onions and potatoes I tell my wife who is technologically challenged,” he adds. “But now we have more vendors to choose from.”


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: boeing; iaf; india; mig; navair
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To: sukhoi-30mki
In a real dogfight, such a move can turn the hunted into the hunter.

Try it in a dogfight against a competent adversary and your life is forfeit, IMO.
21 posted on 02/12/2007 6:11:12 AM PST by Pox (If it's a Coward you are searching for, you need look no further than the Democrats.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Russia has the best unproven aircraft in the world.


22 posted on 02/12/2007 6:13:50 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The Russians may allow greater tech transfer for the simple reason that MIG Corp is in the doldrums & the Mig-35 will not enter service with the Russian military anyway.

Wouldn't that be a problem for the IAF? Buying an 'orphan', if you know what I mean?

23 posted on 02/12/2007 6:20:20 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy

Not exactly given that a good chunk of Russian weaponry built today is not meant for the Russian military & has been so for a quiet a while & countries do get greater level of technology transfer to avoid contigency situations.Besides the Mig-29 & it's upgrades still serve in the Russian military so spare parts still can be sourced.


24 posted on 02/12/2007 6:28:12 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: U S Army EOD
As I understand it a Russian scientist is considered the top guy in world wide in ejection seats/devices and we use his designs modified as well.

There are a number of things that must be considered if we are to honestly evaluate aircraft.

Cost to Produce
Cost to Train Pilots and Support Personell
Cost to Operate
Cost to Maintain


If we or any nation just build ever more expensive craft we will be in a "Death Spiral" wherein the total number of craft will ever plummet. When the total numbers of craft drop while costs of production and maintenance ever increase a point will be reached where smaller cheaper and less sophisticated craft will have an insurmountable advantage. Air to Air Missiles can be put on many platforms and their performance is quite good. Given sufficient numbers of WWII P38s or P51s coupled with modern electronics and air to air missiles. They would win the fight for air superiority. They really exists a point where the old prop planes could be maintained easier in the kind of numbers which would swamp the most modern craft...


We often fly our best craft many hundreds if not thousands of miles to engage the enemy. Small Prop planes can be prepositioned with the frontline troops and simply fly up to meet their faster farther away based enemy when they arrive. W
25 posted on 02/12/2007 6:31:37 AM PST by WLR ("fugit impius nemine persequente iustus autem quasi leo confidens absque terrore erit")
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To: WLR

There was a proposal to develop a modern P51 Mustang back in the late-'70s. Don't think it really got too far.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_14.html


26 posted on 02/12/2007 6:42:08 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The Russians rarely fail to advertise the MiG-35’s thrust vector control that allows the aircraft to undertake the breathtaking “cobra” manoeuvre. The aircraft stalls in mid-flight, nose at 90 degrees like a cobra ready to strike, and slides backwards. In a real dogfight, such a move can turn the hunted into the hunter.

All the video I've seen show the MiG-35 "barely" recovering from the Cobra while the F-22 executes the manuever smoothly. I haven't seen video of the Hornet attempting the Cobra.

27 posted on 02/12/2007 6:47:07 AM PST by fso301
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Mig 35

28 posted on 02/12/2007 6:55:21 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Tallguy

I remember this and saw some pictures of some of the aircraft. It looked like a cross between a P51 and the F8F Bearcat. My understanding was that it could acutally outrun an A 10.


29 posted on 02/12/2007 8:07:34 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Support your local EOD Detachment)
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To: WLR

Remember what happened to Syria with the Israeli Air Force.

Also, at one time, McNamara and his wiz kids determined it was cheaper to train pilots than to armor helicoptors.


30 posted on 02/12/2007 8:10:38 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Support your local EOD Detachment)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

two points for you to consider...

1. Los Alamos National Laboratory
2. Wen Ho Lee

This took place on our own soil!


31 posted on 02/12/2007 9:26:03 AM PST by Arcy
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To: sukhoi-30mki
"I really don't think Boeing would be allowed offer the level of tech transfer you talk about..."

That's the crux. If full F/A-18 tech transfer is allowed, Boeing will win this contract. If not, then Boeing probably won't win...or won't win more than half.

32 posted on 02/12/2007 10:51:36 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: U S Army EOD

Practice, practice, practice.


33 posted on 02/12/2007 11:29:08 AM PST by ozzymandus
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To: sukhoi-30mki

"In a real dogfight, such a move can turn the hunted into the hunter."

Sould read:

"In a real dogfight, such a move can turn the hunted into steel confetti."


34 posted on 02/12/2007 1:44:49 PM PST by TexanToTheCore (If it ain't Rugby or Bullriding, it's for girls.........................................)
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox
Thanks for the ping, Vroomfondel. I can't monitor FR 24/7 and really appreciate help in catching threads I might otherwise miss.

SONOBUOY PING!

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
This is a low volume pinglist.

35 posted on 02/12/2007 1:58:42 PM PST by magslinger (Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make up something good.)
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To: U S Army EOD; Tallguy
PA-48 Enforcer:


36 posted on 02/12/2007 2:08:36 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Voted Free Republic's Most Eligible Bachelor: 2006. Love them Diebold machines.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

bump


37 posted on 02/12/2007 2:27:38 PM PST by Centurion2000 (If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

bump for later read


38 posted on 02/12/2007 2:43:05 PM PST by Bender2 (As my old Sportscasting prof said in 1967, "Ain't we all pink on the inside any way?")
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Not to scale (of course)

39 posted on 02/12/2007 2:53:49 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: R. Scott
Re:

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I like... Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting the Dallas Cowboy version better!
40 posted on 02/12/2007 2:55:32 PM PST by Bender2 (Welcome to Valley Ranch, Wade!)
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