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No deal, Rudy
Catholic Online ^ | 3/6/2007

Posted on 03/06/2007 5:39:37 PM PST by markomalley

They are saying that the next GOP presidential candidate might very well be a pro-abortion Republican who promises not to push that issue and is strong on other issues.

They hope that pro-lifers will “be reasonable,” not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and go along quietly.

We won’t.

Republicans and Democrats in 1980 took radically different approaches to the right to life. Republicans wrote into their party platform that all abortions should be outlawed. Democrats wrote into their party platform that not only should abortion be legal, but families should be forced to pay for others’ abortions through their taxes.

Democratic leaders have been utterly committed to their party platform. But there’s a movement afoot for Republicans to shrug off this plank of the party platform altogether, and give a pro-abortion politician the reins of the party and, they hope, the White House.

In particular, Rudy Giuliani has become a favorite for president of conservative talk-show hosts, and pro-war and tough-on-crime Republicans. He’s also way ahead in polls like Newsweek’s, though it’s anyone guess what such polls mean so early in the process.

The way the pro-Rudy argument goes is this: For the past three decades, social conservatives have had the luxury of insisting on purity in the Republican Party. Their clout was such that any candidate had to undergo a “forced conversion” before running for national office. But 9/11 changed that. Now, extremist Islam and the war on terror are such all-consuming issues, and we can’t be so caught up with abortion anymore.

Since Giuliani is committed to the war on terror and is a great crisis manager with a track record rooting out the gangs of New York, we shouldn’t demand that he be pro-life, but instead we should be willing to make a deal.

Rudy’s deal: He’ll promise not to push the pro-abortion agenda, and he’ll nominate judges in the mold of Samuel Alito and John Roberts. Pro-lifers in the Republican Party in return would support him, but keep insisting that the party stay pro-life, and fight our fiercest pro-life battles at the state level, where they belong.

That seems like a good deal, at first blush. We’re well aware that “forced conversions” to the pro-life fold are far from the ideal. Think of the candidacy of Bob Dole in 1996. And it is true that the fight against judicial tyranny is an immense front in the battle for the right to life. Transforming the courts is a prerequisite to victory elsewhere.

But what dooms the deal from the start is the fact that it totally misunderstands what pro-lifers care about in the first place.

When they ask us to “be reasonable” and go along with a pro-abortion leader, they assume that there is something unreasonable about the pro-life position to start with.

We’re sorry, but we don’t see what is so unreasonable about the right to life. We’ve seen ultrasounds, we’ve named our babies in the womb, we’ve seen women destroyed by abortion. What looks supremely unreasonable to us is that we should trust a leader who not doesn’t only reject the right to life but even supports partial-birth abortion, which is more infanticide than abortion.

We also see the downside of Rudy’s deal. If pro-lifers went along, we’d soon find out that a pro-abortion Republican president would no longer preside over a pro-life party. The power a president exerts over his party’s character is nearly absolute. The party is changed in his image. He picks those who run it and, both directly and indirectly, those who enter it.

Thus, the Republicans in the 1980s became Reaganites. The Democrats in the 1990s took on the pragmatic Clintonite mold. Bush’s GOP is no different, as Ross Douthat points out in “It’s His Party” in the March Atlantic Monthly.

A Republican Party led by a pro-abortion politician would become a pro-abortion party. Parents know that, when we make significant exceptions to significant rules, those exceptions themselves become iron-clad rules to our children. It’s the same in a political party. A Republican Party led by Rudy Giuliani would be a party of contempt for the pro-life position, which is to say, contempt for the fundamental right on which all others depend.

Would a pro-abortion president give us a pro-life Supreme Court justice? Maybe he would in his first term. But we’ve seen in the Democratic Party how quickly and completely contempt for the right to life corrupts. Even if a President Giuliani did the right thing for a short time, it’s likely the party that accepted him would do the wrong thing for a long time.

Would his commitment to the war on terror be worth it? The United States has built the first abortion businesses in both Afghanistan and Iraq, ever. Shamefully, our taxes paid to build and operate a Baghdad abortion clinic that is said to get most of its customers because of the pervasive rape problem in that male-dominated society. And that happened under a pro-life president. What would a pro-abortion president do?

The bottom line: Republicans have made inroads into the Catholic vote for years because of the pro-life issue. If they put a pro-abortion politician up for president, the gains they’ve built for decades will vanish overnight.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abestgopcandidate; abortion; catholicforum; cino; guiliani; homosexualagenda; liberalgop; marksanford; messageboardpost; moralabsolutes; norudy; prolife; rino; rudy; tomtancredo
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To: areafiftyone

Skipped right over the "Black Church" thing, I see.

How very brave of you.


41 posted on 03/06/2007 6:00:59 PM PST by Enosh (†)
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To: markomalley
You are right. Rudy is no conservative. Here is a little chart that I will be posting a lot in the next few months.

Rudy--------------------Hillary!

Anti-Gun----------------Anti-Gun
Pro-Abortion------------Pro-Abortion
Gay-Loving-------------Gay-Loving
Looks awful in a dress---Ditto

I could go on but the Rudy-lickers will continue to be in love with the smell of his backside no matter what.

If he gets the nomination I'm staying home for the first time ever or voting libertarian for the first time ever.

It won't make a nickel's worth of difference who wins.

42 posted on 03/06/2007 6:01:19 PM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: abishai
They use two boogeymen to scare us into voting for Giuliani: Hillary and 9/11. BINGO!
43 posted on 03/06/2007 6:02:00 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: areafiftyone
The day the Roman Catholic church or any church dictates to us who to vote for then we are not the U.S. anymore.

You forgot to add the requisite, "Don't like abortion? Don't have one!" It closes off your sentiments so nicely.

44 posted on 03/06/2007 6:02:08 PM PST by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: Alberta's Child

Your post is quite correct. I can't argue with it at all.


45 posted on 03/06/2007 6:03:12 PM PST by areafiftyone (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - STRENGTH AND LEADERSHIP)
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To: markomalley
God bless you, Mark O'Malley, a thousand million times!

Rudy Giuliani is an impossibility for any faithful Catholic. I would work tirelessly to defeat Rudy Giuliani because his presence in the White House is far worse than anyone can possibly imagine yet. But there is time for every last one of his skeletons to come out of the closet and dance.

In the case of Fred Thompson, we have his voting record in the Senate which is much more to our way of thinking on Life matters. He could seal the deal, so to speak, were he to choose a pro-life Veep like Melissa Hart (Pennsylvania - an outstanding former Congresswoman) or Sam Brownback.

46 posted on 03/06/2007 6:04:00 PM PST by Siobhan (Pray, pray, pray,)
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To: areafiftyone
"this tripe" are not words that I, as a Catholic, would associate with Catholic.org, which has proven to be an extraordinary, faith-driven resource for American Catholics.
47 posted on 03/06/2007 6:04:58 PM PST by StAnDeliver
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To: Alberta's Child

You're not alone.


48 posted on 03/06/2007 6:05:29 PM PST by Lexinom (Duncan Hunter - the electable answer for the WOT and border security. www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Gop1040
He said he would appoint SC Justices like Roberts and Scalia

I'm convinced!

YES! The SC Justices he would appoint would be human, breathe oxygen, exhale carbon dioxide and have been born since 1900.

JUST LIKE Roberts and Scalia.

Yes! Vote early and often for Rudy!

I'm convinced!

Cheers!


49 posted on 03/06/2007 6:05:45 PM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: BunnySlippers

Very interesting graphic for Giuliani. Pity it is so pretty for a man with such an ugly soul.


50 posted on 03/06/2007 6:05:57 PM PST by Siobhan (Pray, pray, pray,)
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To: Siobhan
From a personal (Catholic) standpoint, the biggest disgrace here in the U.S. is that evangelical Protestants have been stronger advocates for the "Catholic" moral traditions regarding the sanctity of human life than Catholics have been over the last few decades.

In fact, a look at the electoral map in any given presidential election will reveal that a state's likelihood to vote for a radical pro-abortion candidate is largely a function of its Catholic population.

51 posted on 03/06/2007 6:07:48 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Gop1040
If he changed his position, he'd be flip-flopping like a fish out of water ala Romney. He said he would appoint SC Justices like Roberts and Scalia.....that's enough for me.

In the general election, I'll take the chance that Rudy would appoint anti Roe v. Wade judges.

In the primaries however, I will support the candidate who is the best social and fiscal conservative.

52 posted on 03/06/2007 6:08:18 PM PST by FreeReign (Still looking for the best conservative candidate.)
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To: Siobhan
Pity it is so pretty for a man with such an ugly soul.

YOU have seen his soul? What a pompous fool!

53 posted on 03/06/2007 6:08:28 PM PST by wireman
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To: markomalley
We’re well aware that “forced conversions” to the pro-life fold are far from the ideal. Think of the candidacy of Bob Dole in 1996.

When Dole said he didn't consider himself bound by the party platform, he forfeited the white house. Why vote for a man who tells you up front that he regards his commitments so lightly?

54 posted on 03/06/2007 6:08:34 PM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: dynachrome
You will vote for the pro-abortion, anti-2nd amendment liberal, and like it, mister! After all, there is a little "r" after his name./sarc

That's how a lot of us on FR feel treated, frankly, by the vocal minority of Rudy supporters.

55 posted on 03/06/2007 6:08:49 PM PST by Lexinom (Duncan Hunter - the electable answer for the WOT and border security. www.gohunter08.com)
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To: abishai

"They use two boogeymen to scare us into voting for Giuliani: Hillary and 9/11. Its not working. "

Not for me anyway.

The idea that only Rudy can win the war on terror and McCain, Romney, and Duncan Hunter can't is pure bunk.
Frankly, the most eloquent speaker on Islamic extremism and the threat from Iran is Romney.

IF RUDY IS SO GREAT, WHAT IS HIS PLAN TO WIN IN IRAQ DESPITE THE DEMOCRAT CONGRESS?

If he can't solve that riddle, he's no better than the rest of them.


56 posted on 03/06/2007 6:09:04 PM PST by WOSG (The 4-fold path to save America - Think right, act right, speak right, vote right!)
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To: mylife
I completely refuted your post.

You're now trying to hedge. It won't work.

57 posted on 03/06/2007 6:11:12 PM PST by nopardons
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To: areafiftyone
Clearly, your Catholic identity and your liberty are important to you. If you are part of my generation you likely did not get the kind of education that is needed to really understand the Catholic faith and to become as free and faithful in Christ as possible. Much of what I recall of religious education involved glitter.

May I send you a copy of the Compendium of the Cathechism of the Catholic Church? Freep-mail me your address and I'll be happy to send one.

58 posted on 03/06/2007 6:11:12 PM PST by Siobhan (Pray, pray, pray,)
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To: wireman

No, standing near him, the stench from his soul always makes me want to vomit. (A mantilla bow to the Cure d'Ars)


59 posted on 03/06/2007 6:12:15 PM PST by Siobhan (Pray, pray, pray,)
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To: wireman; Siobhan
YOU have seen his soul? What a pompous fool!

His behavior indicates the state of his soul.

60 posted on 03/06/2007 6:13:05 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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