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One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
Charleston Daily Mail ^ | today | staff

Posted on 03/29/2007 3:05:36 PM PDT by Rodney King

One of 10 draftees still in Army retires by By The Associated Press Print Story Email Story FORT BLISS, Texas -- Robert Rangel was a college student trying to "fly below the radar" when his draft number came up in 1967.

"I got caught," he said with a wide smile.

Caught, as it turns out, for 40 years.

Chief Warrant Officer Rangel was one of just 10 draftees still in the Army when he retired Wednesday, according to Fort Bliss officials. It was unclear whether the other draftees have served as long as Rangel; the draft ended in 1973.

Rangel, of El Paso, said the prospect of being drafted was terrifying after watching numerous friends "coming home in coffins."

But he opted to stay well beyond the required two-year hitch because "I started enjoying my job and the people I worked with."

He's been deployed to nine combat zones, from Vietnam to the Persian Gulf. Maj. Gen. Robert Lennox, the Fort Bliss commanding general, described Rangel as the "foremost expert" on air defense systems at the West Texas post, the current home of the Air Defense Artillery Center.

Michael Zaborowski, a retired lieutenant colonel who has known Rangel for more than a decade, said he has long been impressed by his dedication. "I did 20 years and I thought that was a lot," he said.

Rangel retired a few months before his 62nd birthday, when he would have been forced to do so under Army regulations.

His mother, who attended his retirement ceremony, was relieved the day had finally come. "That was a long time that I worried," Adelina Rangel said softly.

Rangel's years in the Army included more than 200 parachute jumps with a special forces unit in Vietnam and Cambodia, time in battle zones, a firsthand view of the crumbling of the Berlin Wall and a tour in the first Gulf War.

Now his priority is to take care of his mom and tackle some projects.

Tops on the list is restoring a 1964 Plymouth Sport Fury. He parked it in his mom's barn when he went off to basic training.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: american; hero
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To: silentreignofheroes

Don't dish if if you can't take it.

At least now you know a person could volunteer for the draft back then. Nothin' funny about it.


101 posted on 03/29/2007 4:34:42 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: geo40xyz

I was a two year RA, no choices of course. But the best plans of mice and men go astray :^(


102 posted on 03/29/2007 4:35:05 PM PDT by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: leadpenny

If you only agreed to the two years you took what they gave you based on your test scores..


That I remember,,Never knew the scores but had talked to dudes that had 2 yr tours..I don't remember voluntering for the draft..


103 posted on 03/29/2007 4:35:41 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: operation clinton cleanup

When I was in the USMC in 1971, they were RIFing officers left and right, too. My boss had three different ranks in one day. They RIFed him from Captain to W-2 and promoted hime to W-3. He sure hated to give up those railroad tracks.

BTW, I was a draftee myself. Yes, into the Marine Corps. Later served 13 years with the Army National Guard. I might even be in to this day if they had wanted old fat bastards like me back in '92.


104 posted on 03/29/2007 4:38:25 PM PDT by Past Your Eyes (Some people are too stupid to be ashamed.)
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To: shorty_harris

Had to have it due to the Shipboard Radar??


105 posted on 03/29/2007 4:38:59 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Repeal The 17th
They DID NOT "volunteer for the draft".

As funny as it may sound it was very possible to "volunteer" for the draft. I know. I did it.

For most young men at the time you registered for the draft at 18, got your draft card, and waited.

Or you went to college (or some other qualifying school) and got a 2S deferment.

Or you visited your friendly recruiter and volunteered.

Or you called your local draft board, as I did, and asked them to send you a draft notice. I had mine in a matter of days and two weeks later was a "US" with a two year commitment like all the other draftees (unlike volunteers who were RAs with 3 and 4 year obligations).

106 posted on 03/29/2007 4:39:15 PM PDT by O6ret
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To: O6ret

you make me curious now .... what year was that?


107 posted on 03/29/2007 4:42:17 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: O6ret

I've tried to tell 'em Colonel. What did you do during that two years to switch over?


108 posted on 03/29/2007 4:42:46 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny

Don't dish if if you can't take it. What does that mean..?

You never could volunter to be DRAFTED..Draft is involuntary..


109 posted on 03/29/2007 4:43:38 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: silentreignofheroes

Wake up and read the thread, rookie.


110 posted on 03/29/2007 4:45:33 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny

Tell me that to my face.!!I'll gladly shake your hand..


111 posted on 03/29/2007 4:51:14 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: neodad

Hubba Hubba, gotta give it up for the Sun City...
Man do I miss the Cattlemen's out in Fabens and the State Line out on...well, the State Line!


112 posted on 03/29/2007 4:53:31 PM PDT by RadioCirca1970 (I'm Starting a new cultural movement: Calling STUPID when I see it.)
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To: silentreignofheroes

Naw, I was an Aviation Electrician...


113 posted on 03/29/2007 4:53:48 PM PDT by shorty_harris
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To: silentreignofheroes

First you tell me to kiss you lily white ass and now you want to shake my hand. Make up your mind.


114 posted on 03/29/2007 4:55:00 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: shorty_harris

My last 22yrs. with the Gov. was at Rucker working on the Sims..But electronics is electronics..,,, an electron can only flow one way unless unconventional electronics is taught,, which was thrown at us...


115 posted on 03/29/2007 4:57:57 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Bender2

My Dad retired a CW4 after 22 years of service. The way he explained the commissions is Warrent Officers are commissioned by the Sec Def while Commissioned Officers are commissoned by the POTUS.


116 posted on 03/29/2007 5:00:16 PM PDT by Bayou City
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To: operation clinton cleanup; YellowRoseofTx
The standards have changed over time.

During the draft, there was no college requirement to qualify for OCS. You just had to pass the aptitude test, the physical and a very brief psychological evaluation. Now, however, most OCS applicants must have a college degree although some exceptions are made for enlisted personnel who have otherwise distinguished themselves.

If you got through the 6-month OCS (which had a very high drop out rate, often 50% or more) you received a "commission" as an officer in the US Army.

A "commission" (as opposed to a "Warrant") has a very specific connotation. It is issued on behalf of the President of the United States and conveys to the "commissioned" officer certain rights and priviledges which the "warrant" officer does not receive.

117 posted on 03/29/2007 5:08:21 PM PDT by O6ret
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To: AzSteven; Rodney King
Chief Warrant is a pretty impressive rank - warrant officers are effectively officers but are not commissioned as such. They don't really command but they perform important technical tasks that might oridinarily require a commissioned officer to deal with. For example, helicopter pilots are often warrants.

CW3s and above though still called Warrant Officers are officially Commissioned officers under the new rules. 2LTs find out in a hurry that crossing a CW3 or higher is the dumbest and most painfull of actions in what could be a VERRRRRRRRyyyyy shortened tour of service. Not only will they get their butts chewed on "with all due respect SIR!" but CW3s and up usually have the General's ear.

118 posted on 03/29/2007 5:10:15 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: leadpenny

Forget it ... Must have ticked you off...Not worth it...!Have a good life..


119 posted on 03/29/2007 5:11:13 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: SandRat
CW3s and above though still called Warrant Officers are officially Commissioned officers under the new rules.

I haven't heard that. 'course I haven't stayed up with the Army Times for years.

120 posted on 03/29/2007 5:13:53 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: MeanWestTexan

I was Air Force....The only WO I can recall ever seeing was at Sheppard AFB, TX. The WO conducted the "Band of the OilBelt."


121 posted on 03/29/2007 5:14:45 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: aft_lizard

If you saw that you witnessed something that probably no one else on the face of the earth has seen. Lucky you!!~


122 posted on 03/29/2007 5:27:05 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ("To be born into freedom is an accident; to die in freedom is an obligation..)
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To: Repeal The 17th

You know I think I've met some of those,,ain't got enough patience for that,,it's a weakness..But you got it right..


123 posted on 03/29/2007 5:28:31 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Rodney King
"Is that above an NCO?"

Rodney,

The warrant grades are considered by some to be the sweetest spot in the Army. The warrant grades, W-1 thru W-4, are indeed between the enlisted and commissioned ranks. However, I believe they have most of the privelages of commissioned officers. As an enlisted man, I seem to recall having to salute them. They are addressed as "Mr." as I recall. They are typically utilized for technical or specialized skills and is a means of providing recognition and compensation for these skills. I am not sure as it has been a long time since I was in the army but I seem to recall that a W-4 is compensated about the same as a major. I am sure that there is an FR'er out there with the definitive scoop.

124 posted on 03/29/2007 5:31:57 PM PDT by snoringbear
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To: silentreignofheroes

You are right - it ain't worth the trouble.
And it kills my buzz.


125 posted on 03/29/2007 5:32:22 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

I would say about 70 other soldiers saw it, and about 13 of us who heard some of what was being said. Also I do not believe the General was RA but rather NG as he looked pretty sloppy(no offence to NG's here, I was one for a little while too)


126 posted on 03/29/2007 5:33:18 PM PDT by aft_lizard (born conservative...I chose to be a republican)
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To: Repeal The 17th

Yea,mine also,almost went out and kicked my dog..But he would'nt understand..Have a good one..


127 posted on 03/29/2007 5:36:25 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Centurion2000
...he just does not have a commission and is not in the officer chain of command....

CW-2 through CW-5 are commissioned ranks.

128 posted on 03/29/2007 5:38:32 PM PDT by Mr.Unique (Global Emergency!)
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To: leadpenny

What are you having a discourse with this jackass for....he wasn't there...claims he has been at Mother Rucker as a civilian puke for 22 years... Get his address...I bet both of us can find someone to go over and pi$$ on his leg because it's obvious he will think it's raining outside!!


129 posted on 03/29/2007 5:41:55 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ("To be born into freedom is an accident; to die in freedom is an obligation..)
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To: Mr.Unique
CW-2 through CW-5 are commissioned ranks.

No, they are not. I will add a caveat in that that was the status as of 1987. My father retired CWO-4 Cobra pilot without a commision (he refused it, interesting reasons).

130 posted on 03/29/2007 5:42:32 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Democrats in Republican Clothing ... DIRC ... They are the knives in the back of the GOP.)
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To: Thumper1960
CPO is an E-7, Senior CPO is an E-8, and Master CPO is and E-9.

After that are the Warrant Officers.

131 posted on 03/29/2007 5:44:20 PM PDT by Mr.Unique (Global Emergency!)
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To: silentreignofheroes

Confused draftee and old school army bump.

132 posted on 03/29/2007 5:45:58 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Democrats in Republican Clothing ... DIRC ... They are the knives in the back of the GOP.)
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To: Rodney King
OK, I apologize and confess my ignorance.

No need to apologize for legitimate questions. I spent 3 years Army and to this day can't figure out what WO's are good for. To be more specific, the only ones I'm familiar with are chopper pilots so why aren't they just plain officers?

133 posted on 03/29/2007 5:48:28 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: stylin19a
They could equally tell officers and NCO's to get stuffed, with damned near immunity.

Being in the Air Force, I had never dealt with Warrant Officers. I deployed with a Joint Task Force as a Major. The JTF was mostly Army folks. I met a W2 who had his Bachelor's Degree. I asked him why he didn't become an officer. He told me, with a very serious face, that he had never met an officer who wasn't a meat head and he wasn't going to become a meat head.

134 posted on 03/29/2007 5:50:41 PM PDT by Mr.Unique (Global Emergency!)
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To: Centurion2000

Looks like the dudes saying,,Opinion,opinion,you mean I don't have a opini,,,now it's IMHO..,,wonder if that's where it started...?


135 posted on 03/29/2007 5:53:12 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Mike Darancette; lesser_satan
In the Navy (Late 60's) there was a path from WO-2 to O-1 but not after that.

The Navy has Limited Duty Officers (LDOs) that don't have college degrees. My BIL went from E-7 to O-1 that way.

136 posted on 03/29/2007 5:54:09 PM PDT by Mr.Unique (Global Emergency!)
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To: doodad

Ain't that the truth!!


137 posted on 03/29/2007 5:57:35 PM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: Thumper1960

A Chief Petty Officer is an E-7, Senior Chief Petty Officer and E-8 and Master Chief Petty Officer is an E-9. They are the top three enlisted ranks in the Navy and Coast Guard. They rank below Warrant Officers.


138 posted on 03/29/2007 5:59:12 PM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: politicalwit

In my entire career I only came across one AF Warrant Officer on active duty. I was going through tech school at Chanute and he was in charge of the school.


139 posted on 03/29/2007 6:05:21 PM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: Centurion2000
Rodney King wrote:
Damn, I would have just enlisted if I could have been a helicopter pilot

And Centurion2000 replied
You needed 60 hours of college to get into the warrant program

Hmmm... I was drafted in June of 1970. Three weeks into basic training (after we'd been tested, etc.), I was sent to an orientation/recruitment for warrant officer flight training (helicopters). I had NO college at the time, just a high school graduate, but that didn't seem to matter.

They said after training (about a year), I'd have to re-up for a minimum of two years. I would have had at least three years' in at the minimum.

I turned them down. A draftee in his third week of basic training is NOT thinking of extending his enlistment.

Although, with years gone by in hindsight, sometimes I wish I'd taken them up on it....

- John

140 posted on 03/29/2007 6:05:49 PM PDT by Fishrrman
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To: geo40xyz

Warrant Officers have the best of both worlds.

They're officers without so many personnel responsibilities.


141 posted on 03/29/2007 6:07:52 PM PDT by bannie
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To: ops33

I was a brat not in service. My Dad prodded due to money, but it was Carter era and I think even he was relieved when I paid my own freight in school rather than put up with what he did.

I will never forget the deference paid to many NCOs by the officers in the 82nd. At first I did not understand, but watching them work and seeing how the troops treated them I realized that the Army had one grade and men had another.


142 posted on 03/29/2007 6:09:54 PM PDT by doodad
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To: Mr.Unique
My BIL went from E-7 to O-1 that way.

In my day E-7s ate O-1s for breakfast. Was he able to advance as an officer?

143 posted on 03/29/2007 6:12:18 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: O6ret
They DID NOT "volunteer for the draft".

As funny as it may sound it was very possible to "volunteer" for the draft. I know. I did it.

I did it too, as did someone else I knew. The only thing different was that I was in college and I had a student deferment, so I had to go in to my Draft Board and sign a "Waiver of Deferment". Then, with the deferment signed, I simply became another 19 year old with no deferment. I asked them to induct me ASAP (I was afraid the war would be over before I got there [who knew?], but they made me wait 2 months). I was inducted. My serial number started with "US", I had no MOS choices, and I did two years. No one, other than the Draft Board knew, unless I told them.

144 posted on 03/29/2007 6:12:42 PM PDT by LZ_Bayonet (Meanwhile, there has been no progress on fixing Social Security!)
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To: Repeal The 17th

That was a black day indeed!


145 posted on 03/29/2007 6:13:30 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: chesty_puller
but don't they ever promote you if you have been in that long?

He was a Chief Warrant Officer.

There are five grades of Warrant Officer in the Army. The first is a WO1 or Warrant Officer One. Then it is Chief Warrant Officer (CWO) 2, 3, 4, and 5. They wear a silver bar with a small black square on the bar. One for one, two for a CW2, etc., etc. This guy had to be a CW5. Otherwise, he would probably not have been around this long.

146 posted on 03/29/2007 6:16:43 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (The TIME is coming to take up arms and defend the Republic. Get ready!!!! NOW!!!)
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To: Rodney King
Yes, Rodney. They made him a Chief Warrant Officer because they ran out of enlisted ranks to give him. He bent the needle on the enlisted ranks and then the needle fell off, so to speak.

I'm sure that man was an institution wherever he went.

147 posted on 03/29/2007 6:17:15 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Mike Darancette
In my day E-7s ate O-1s for breakfast.

Yes, my BIL wasn't sure that he wanted to take the "demotion" form Chief to Ensign. ;)

Was he able to advance as an officer?

He is an LT (O-3) now.

148 posted on 03/29/2007 6:18:51 PM PDT by Mr.Unique (Global Emergency!)
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To: RetiredArmy

Redirect your fire Soldier. I have known what a Warrant Ofc is since my first Huey ride.


149 posted on 03/29/2007 6:19:16 PM PDT by chesty_puller (USMC 70-73 3MAF VN 70-71 US Army 75-79 3d Inf Old Guard)
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To: chesty_puller

Chill jar. It was meant as info to the other poster.


150 posted on 03/29/2007 6:20:55 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (The TIME is coming to take up arms and defend the Republic. Get ready!!!! NOW!!!)
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