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But, if the only choices are Hiltery and Julie-Anna, the only hope for conservative in the White House would be in 2012 if the former won.

Dream on. If "Hiltery" wins in 2008 there's no four years and out. And by 2016 this country won't be recognizable in today's terms. "Conservatives" will be competing to see who can raise the most taxes for national health insurance by then.

What you guys fail to grasp about the "Rudy is no different from Hillary" fraud is, the winner sets the terms of the debate, sets the agenda, and deals the cards. Just look at the difference in the Clinton administration and the Bush administration. Clinton understood this, so we still have a government larded with Clintonoids--he had an agenda and he was serious enough about it to subvert the government machinery in order for his agenda to survive his leaving.

Bush has no idea about this, so he left the Clintonoids in place, and now the State Department, CIA, FBI, Pentagon, and god knows who else is actively working to advance--the clinton agenda. The Bush agenda, whatever it is at this point-- is dead in the water, floating around in some stagnant inlet somewhere.

Let Clinton II have eight years and god only knows what we will have to swallow-- but guaranteed, it will be bitter and it will be permanent. Giuliani is socially liberal, no argument-- but he doesn't have a driving need to remake the USA into a chickenshit totalitarian eurosocialist state like the Clinton Crime Family does.

It's a free country, (still--more or less) so you all have the right to your opinions, but you who can't see the differences in these crucial domains have no right to expect to be taken seriously.

And by 2016 this country won't be recognizable in today's terms.

The Republican party, the conservative movement and the nation won't be recognizable by 2016 if a liberal Republican like Giuliani gets in office.

Apparently, you have learned nothing from the experience of electing RINOs to office like Christie Todd Whitman, Michael Bloomberg and Arnold Schwartzenkennedy.

There is no stopping a liberal agenda when it is being advanced by a Republican. Worse, a RINO like Giuliani in office will result in shrinking Republican minority in Congress where as the first Clinton Presidency resulted in Republicans gaining 500 seats nationwide.

To the FReepers in attendance and the millions watching around the world on Pay Per View…Ladies and Gentleman...

LLLLLLLets Get Ready to RRRumblllllllle!!!!

1,500,000,000 rounds of posts, arguments, insults, cheesy graphics, name calling, and ad hominem personal attacks that pass as debate for the FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!

"Introducing first, to my right, fighting out of the red corner, wearing their Sunday best with a gold crucifix...weighing in at 810 and 1/4 pounds...the social conservatives, the religious right, the champions of family values...from the Southern States...The Evangelicals!" (wild applause)

"And in the blue corner, wearing an off the rack suit, Goldwater ’64 lapel pin and a belt 2 sizes too small...weighing in at 141 pounds soaking wet...the fiscal conservatives, the last champions of limited government...from the Western States...The Libertarians!" (wild applause)

I don’t know how Rudy always manages to be in the wrong (right) place at the right (wrong) time. First in the middle of 9/11 and then this battle between the social and fiscal conservatives.

Chapter 1: Live From the Reagan Building

"..........Dream on. If "Hiltery" wins in 2008 there's no four years and out. And by 2016 this country won't be recognizable in today's terms. "Conservatives" will be competing to see who can raise the most taxes for national health insurance by then.

You made many excellent points and I'm amazed that some here prefer to put social issues ahead of the WOT, Iran, North Korea and the huge mess this country would be in if Hillary and Bubba are back in power. It's too excruciating to contemplate.