News from the Long War, Thread 4

Various | 4/15/07 | Knitting a Conundrum and Others

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Thread 4



Since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, our nation has fought a global war against violent extremists who use terrorism as their weapon of choice, and who seek to destroy our free way of life. Our enemies seek weapons of mass destruction and, if they are successful, will likely attempt to use them in their conflict with free people everywhere. Currently, the struggle is centered in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we will need to be prepared and arranged to successfully defend our nation and its interests around the globe for years to come. DOD

Our enemies include all the Muslims who dream of knocking Western Civilization off its perch atop humanity’s dung heap. Islam is fractured into any number of sects, tribes and ethnic groups, but the dream of destroying us cuts across all the fault lines. Islamic terrorists are merely the tip of a very large spear.

J. Peter Mulhern, the American Thinker, September 18

The determination behind that fight is real, the hatred is real, and the excuses for doing this are very real in the minds of those who have decided to walk that path. We can respond in two ways: Try to ignore or negotiate with people who do not want to negotiate in good faith, because what they want is our destruction, or to stand up against the darkness of those who see all of us, our way of life, our culture and our aspirations as something worth eliminating.

Either: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Or: "With vigilance, determination, courage, we will defeat the enemies of freedom, and we will leave behind a more peaceful world for our children and our grandchildren." GW Bush.

Here's where I will post news and info about the Long War. Let me know if you're interested.

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

[Uncle Ike]

” Winograd Report: Olmert, Peretz Negligent, Failed War Objectives “

How wonderful — it took a “blue-ribbon commission” something over 6 months to come up with what we’ve been saying from day-1....

Ain’t government wonderful?????

[Bahbah]

LOLOLOL.

They are many, many times that they could have hired us to do their AAR for far less money.

[WorkerbeeCitizen]

"Winograd Report: Olmert, Peretz Negligent, Failed War Objectives"

I thought we figured that out last year.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

16:57 Olmert thanks Winograd Committee for hard work on `thankless` task (Ch. 10)
16:53 Winograd report: PM displayed `severe failure` in judgement, caution (Channel 2)
16:51 War probe: PM responsible for decision to begin war in disorganized manner (Ch. 2)
16:50 Winograd report: PM`s decision to go to war was taken too rapidly (Ch. 2)
16:49 Olmert thanks Winograd Committee for hard work on `thankless` task (Ch. 10)
16:46 Peretz: Israel still obligated to secure release of captured IDF soldiers (Ch. 10)
16:42 Winograd report: Ex-IDF chief Halutz forced his opinion on cabinet (Channel 10)
16:39 Winograd report: Ex-IDF chief Halutz took Katyusha threat too lightly (Ch. 10)
16:38 Ex-IDF chief Halutz says he needn`t respond to Winograd report at this stage (Ch. 10)
16:37 Peretz lawyer: Winograd report accuses leaders of failure in handling conflict (Ch. 10)
16:37 Africa Israel Group aquires NY Times building for half a billion dollars (Israel Radio)
16:35 Winograd panel arrives at Jerusalem`s International Convention Center (Ch. 10)
16:30 FM`s associates: Livni to deny reports that she doesn`t plan to back PM (Army Radio)
16:28 Peretz`s attorney: Winograd report findings similar to previous media leaks (Ch. 10)
16:21 Bezeq CEO hands in his resignation to board of directors (Israel Radio)
16:10 PM to convene Kadima party to discuss Winograd interim report Mon. evening (Ch. 10)
16:10 Officials: Report on Lebanon war probe delivered to Olmert (AP)

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Text of report should be just hitting about now...

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Winograd committee findings released to the public

---

Herb Keinon, Gil Hoffman, Mark Weiss, and jpost staff, THE JERUSALEM POST

Apr. 30, 2007

---

After months of waiting and speculation, the Winograd Committee's interim report harshly criticizing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz, and former IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. (res.) Dan Halutz over their actions during the first five days of the Second Lebanon War was released to the public Sunday afternoon.

According to the final chapter of the report, which includes the committee's conclusions, Olmert is described as a passive leader who was led by the nose by the army and who did not take charge of the war he was supposed to be commanding

Peretz, who should not have accepted the Defense portfolio in the first place, did not do what he should have to make up for his lack of knowledge of security matters after he accepted the post, according to the report.

And with regards to Halutz, the report said that the former IDF chief of general staff did not take Hizbullah's missile attacks against the northern part of the country seriously and at no time came up with a plan to address the threat.

Olmert will meet with members of the Kadima faction on Monday at 6:45 p.m. in order to discuss the findings of the Winograd interim report which was given to him at 4 p.m., one hour prior to its release to the public.

In the meeting, Olmert will discuss ways in which to react to the report on the mistakes of the Second Lebanon War and brief the ministers on the reactions to the press after its publication.

Israel Radio reported that Olmert was expected to adopt the findings of the report but did not intend to resign.

THE WINOGRAD REPORT: SPECIAL COVERAGE

• Analysis: A watershed event?
  
• Associates of PM say Olmert won't quit
  
• Self-imposed limitations of the report
  
• PMO preparing for all scenarios
  
• IDF brass criticized for role before war
  
• The Second Lebanon War: JPost special

Meanwhile, the Knesset is set to hold a special session this week on the findings of the report at the request of opposition factions.

Israel Radio reported that the request was submitted to the Knesset speaker by the Likud, NRP-NU and UTJ.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz also planned to remain in office irrespective of the report's conclusions, according to close associates of the defense minister, including one of his senior advisors, lawyer Rami Buglin.

Buglin rejected the claims that Peretz didn't consult with senior members of the defense ministry during the war and that he didn't have sufficient experience to fulfill his role as defense minister. "Israel should be amazed at the actions of Peretz," Buglin told Israel Radio.

Although the five members of the Winograd Committee are expected to declare Olmert a failure, his political opponents do not intend to overthrow him right away.

Olmert's associates said they expected Monday to be a difficult day. However, they were not concerned that the interim report would hasten the end of Olmert's political career, because his rivals in Kadima, Labor and Likud all have an interest in allowing him to remain prime minister, at least until release of the final Winograd report in July, which is expected to be more critical.

"If anyone thought there would be an effort to overthrow Olmert within Kadima, they were wrong," a senior party official said. "Even the people who are most unsatisfied with Olmert don't think this is the right time to get rid of him."

The message that has come out of the Prime Minister's Office in recent days is that Olmert has no intention of resigning in the wake of the Winograd Committee report, and that he will wage a spirited fight to defend himself both against calls to resign and against possible challenges from within his own party.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni raised eyebrows in a meeting of Kadima ministers on Sunday when she remained silent while every other minister advised Olmert on how to handle the report.

Livni has recently invited many Kadima MKs and mayors to her office for private discussions about the party's future.

In the meetings, she emphasized she did not intend to topple the prime minister but that she was qualified to take over the reins of the party and the country if Olmert would resign.

Officials in Olmert's camp admitted that there was "frustration" inside the Prime Minister's Office with Livni's silence and the spate of political meetings she has held in recent days.

"She's a politician, she is part of Kadima and she believes in the party," a political source said of Livni. "She is working to strengthen Kadima and to help her position in the party."

The source said the reason for Livni's busy political schedule was not Winograd but the fact that her new political adviser, Uri Kedar, started his job on April 1. Since then, Livni has had meetings described as "very positive" with many of Kadima's most powerful figures, including the head of the Union of Local Authorities in Israel, Karmiel Mayor Adi Eldar.

A senior Kadima official said that due in part to those meetings, if Olmert left office, Livni would already have a majority in the faction to replace him.

The official said that contrary to many reports, the party's rules would not prevent her from becoming prime minister while seeking the Kadima chairmanship.

There is no mechanism in Kadima's charter for overthrowing the party's leader, so the charter would have to be changed for Olmert to be toppled from within. If Olmert resigns, an election would be held among party members within 60 days. During that time, Kadima would be led by a temporary head, someone not running for the party leadership.

Meanwhile, Acting President Dalia Itzik would have a week to meet with faction heads and hear their recommendations for Olmert's replacement as prime minister, while Olmert would remain prime minister of a transitional government.

In such a scenario, the Kadima faction could recommend Livni and she would would be eligible to run for Kadima head because she would be prime minister but not the acting party chairman.

Construction and Housing Minister Meir Sheetrit and Vice Premier Shimon Peres, who have each been mentioned as possible Olmert successors, both told reporters on Monday that they expected the government to survive.

Thanks to the vacancy in the Finance Ministry, potential Olmert critics like Sheetrit and Transportation Minister Shaul Mofaz have been careful not to criticize the prime minister.

"I have been part of many governments that were frequently eulogized," Sheetrit said. "It's too early for people to start tailoring their suits."

Sheetrit's comment was aimed in part at Likud chairman Binyamin Netanyahu, who polls say would become prime minister if a general election were held. In an effort to maintain his front-runner status, Netanyahu decided not to give any interviews on Monday, staying out of the fray while other Likud MKs attack Olmert.

Netanyahu has not decided whether to attend Thursday's Tel Aviv rally that will call on Olmert to resign.

Meretz MKs have decided not to attend the event because even though it is being organized by dovish Maj.-Gen. (res.) Uzi Dayan, they said it had been "taken over by Netanyahu and the Right."

The two top Labor leadership contenders, MK Ami Ayalon and former prime minister Ehud Barak, are also not expected to attend the event at Kikar Rabin, because both want to become Olmert's defense minister and neither of them believe he should quit.

Barak will continue his strategy of remaining silent, while Ayalon told Channel 10 that he preferred Olmert as prime minister to Netanyahu.

"I'll do everything possible to prevent new elections," Ayalon said.

Two National Union-National Religious Party MKs intend to submit bills calling for the dispersal of the Knesset during a special session of the parliament this week. There is currently no majority for the legislation and if they fail, a similar bill cannot be introduced for six months.

[Bahbah]

16:46 Peretz: Israel still obligated to secure release of captured IDF soldiers (Ch. 10)

Well, I glad he thinks they're still obligated.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

17:13 Winograd: Outcome could`ve been better if PM, Halutz, Peretz acted differently (Ch. 2)
17:13 Winograd: Some war objectives were unattainable; leaders lacked creativity (Ch. 22)
17:10 Winograd: Cabinet voted to go to war without understanding implications (Ch. 2)
17:10 Winograd: Halutz entered war unprepared, didn`t inform cabinet (Channel 2)
17:07 Winograd: Peretz wasn`t aware of situation in IDF though he should have been (Ch. 2)
17:06 Winograd: Those hurt by report have had opportunity to respond (Channel 2)
17:04 Winograd: Our aim is to present facts to decision makers, public (Channel 2)
17:02 Winograd: Breadth of event, failure, is equally wide opportunity to improve (Ch. 2)
17:00 Winograd: Panel presented gov`t officials with confidential version of report (Ch. 2)
16:57 Olmert thanks Winograd Committee for hard work on `thankless` task (Ch. 10)
16:53 Winograd report: PM displayed `severe failure` in judgement, caution (Channel 2)
16:51 War probe: PM responsible for decision to begin war in disorganized manner (Ch. 2)

[Knitting A Conundrum]

17:18 Winograd: Halutz bears more responsibility, knowing PM, Peretz were inexperienced (Ch. 2)
17:16 Winograd: Halutz reacted impulsively to kidnapping of soldiers (Channel 2)
17:15 Winograd: Despite lack of experience, PM did not request help, question plan (Ch. 2)
17:15 Winograd: Peretz did not inspect war plan carefully enough (Channel 2)

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Winograd: Olmert responsible for war failures

Published: 04.30.07, 17:16 / Israel News

“We find the prime minister responsible, ministerially and personally, for the faulty decisions that were made and the faults in the decision-making process,” reads the partial Winograd Commission report.

“The prime minister had formulated his standpoint without having seen a detailed plan and without demanding that such a plan be presented, so he could not have scrutinized it and approved it,” the report states. “Furthermore, he did not request any alternatives for consideration and did not show appropriate reservation regarding the army’s position. This was his failure.” (Attila Somfalvi and Amnon Meranda)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3393908,00.html

[pinz-n-needlez]

Well said Ike.

That guru gig may work out yet. ;-)

[pinz-n-needlez]

Good morning, Bah. :-)

Speaking of tea... brb.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Not disagreeing here....Build bridges, light candles. Bring light instead of cursing the darkness. That’s my philosophy.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

7:26 Winograd: IDF was unprepared because politicians thought war era was over (Ch. 2)
17:24 Winograd: Panel considering adding personal recommendations in final report (Ch. 2)
17:21 Winograd: Government`s decision making process must be improved (Channel 2)
17:20 Winograd: Halutz displayed lack of professionalism, lack of judgment (Ch. 2)
17:18 Winograd: Halutz bears more blame, knowing PM, Peretz were inexperienced (Ch. 2)

[pinz-n-needlez]

I join you in hope, Workerbee. :-)

I think one of the strengths of this thread is that we have focused on what we are in agreement on... the danger the unrest in the ME represents to us here in the US of A.

We haven’t poked and prodded to see what our disagreements might be so that we can bash one another over the heads with them.

In fact, it has strengthened our joint efforts to serendipitously discover the other areas in which we have close agreement. The benefit of our down-time tangents, I guess. :-)

And a clear way for new folks to integrate themselves in our happy little band.

I’ve read that other thread a couple of times. It just makes me sad.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Yep. Some of resembles the Directoire period of the French Revolution...

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Report: PM responsible for war failures

Winograd report published, says Olmert failed to exercise good judgment, caution in war decisions

Oren Rice
Latest Update: 04.30.07, 17:25 / Israel News

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert failed “severely” in exercising good judgment, responsibility, and caution with regards to his conduct of the Second Lebanon War, according to the Winograd Commission’s report, which was published Monday afternoon, nearly nine months since the war ended.

“Olmert is responsible for going to war without a proper plan. He is responsible for the goals not being carefully and clearly set” the report said.

“We find the prime minister ministerially and personally responsible for the faulty decisions taken and the problems in the decision-making process,” the report stated.

“The prime minister had formulated his opinion without being presented with a detailed plan, and without demanding that such a plan be presented, and therefore he could not have analyzed its details and approved it.”

“Furthermore, he did not demand to be presented with genuine alternatives to his own opinions, or exhibit due skepticism regarding the military’s positions. In this he failed. The prime minister also failed when he had his government approve such decisions… and by declaring unattainable objectives to the war, and that the fighting should continue until they were achieved.”

Members of the Winograd Commission arrived at Olmert’s office at 4 p.m. on Monday, and presented him and Defense Minister Amir Peretz with the report, in order for them to review it before its publication.

On receiving the report, Olmert told the commission members, “You have done serious work, and I thank you on behalf of the government. I know it hasn’t been easy for you in recent months. This is hard, and sometimes ungrateful, work.”

“We will study the report and act immediately… so that we can implement the lessons, fix the failures, and make sure that in any future scenario of the State of Israel, the failures you have indicted are corrected,” he pledged.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3393887,00.html

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Special Knesset Session to Discuss Winograd Findings

(IsraelNN.com) Three opposition factions, United Torah Judaism, Likud, and National Union- National Religious Party, have requested a special Knesset session to discuss the Winograd Committee’s Interim Report. The request, delivered to the Speaker of the Knesset, is expected to be honored later this week.

The freshly published report harshly criticized Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz, and former Chief of General Staff Dan Halutz for their actions during the Second Lebanon War.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/125579

[WorkerbeeCitizen]

Agreed.

It also seems we each have our strengths and weakness, we seem to play off each other's strengths and help bolster each other's weaknesses.

[Unrepentant VN Vet]

“We haven’t poked and prodded to see what our disagreements might be so that we can bash one another over the heads with them.”

Hooorah.

To both of you, and the rest of us old reprobates.

The differences we may have aren’t nearly as important as making sure that our kids and grandkids don’t have to grow up afraid.

(Wandering off to my reloading bench with a fresh cup of coffee......there’s STILL something out there in the d*** wind.)