Posted on 04/18/2007 2:02:53 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
The deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech on Monday has reignited an emotional debate about whether students should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus.
Virginia Tech, like most universities around the country, forbids students from having guns on campus. But as an increasing number of states have passed laws that allow people to carry concealed weapons, gun advocates from Virginia to Utah have also challenged the academic policies that prohibit weapons at colleges and universities.
[Big Snip]
"Almost every college that has looked at this issue feels they can do a better job of protecting their students by banning guns on campus and taking responsibility to provide good security," says Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington. "I'm not sure any campus would like to advertise, 'Come to our campus. We have more guns per capita than any other campus.' "
When the issue is debated again as expected this year in Virginia, gun-control advocates will be lining up with members of the academic community in opposing an expanded presence of guns on campus. They believe the problem is that the country already has too many guns.
"We have access to these weapons, and there are people who get angry, and with that access they will use them," says Jim Sollo, vice president of Virginians Against Handgun Violence, a group with 800 members that advocates gun-control measures. "I fear that we will continue to have mass shootings here in the United States."
But gun advocate Mr. Van Cleave contends that control is not the solution. "Gun control only works with the good guys," he says. "Good people obey the laws. The people you're worried about don't. I don't think [the campus shooting] is going to bode well for gun control."
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
Perpetuating the sheeples fear is practical? That carrying arms is something we should be ashamed of and should remain hidden? That ADULTS on college campus can't be trusted and should be treated like children?
I am acknowledging what you are saying. I just don't agree with it.
You keep focusing on this 1 aberrant event.
It isn’t likely to happen much (although I’d posit it’ll happen more, as society is getting more “mad”).
We’re looking at day-to-day doings. My feeling is a critical mass of older teenagers whose main goal is partying is just plain NOT a good place to hold lots of weapons. It is not as if they are mixed in with many other age groups. IMO, they are likely to have more killings just by stupidity or even being asinine (”he dissed me” - BANG) over the year than this singular unusual event.
As for the old liberal line of “he can fight, he should be able to vote”, how about the drinking laws? Don’t know about VA, but many states have 21 as legal drinking age (obviously, many on campus are violators of this). Is drinking a right also, which should automatically be bestowed on everyone, or at least lowered to 18 “because he can fight”?
And again, we’re not talking about laws. We’re talking about a policy of an institution.
And I’m all for the mature adults working there to have guns unfettered.
You supposed wrong. I've carried when and where I deemed it appropriate and necessary for 19 years.
Don't perpetuate the fear.
I'm not perpetuating fear, I'm perpetuating safe handling that leads to more security and no headlines about accidents and disruptions. the only headlines we want are headlines where a citizen stopped a crime and saved lives.
Either these people are adults, or they aren’t. Make up your mind.
I've seen 50 year olds on the range that make the dumbest safety mistakes. I've known 15 year olds with more common sense than their parents.
18 is the age of Majority. If you are legally considered an adult, then you should have full access to those Rights and responsibilities. Anything less and you may as well move the age of Majority to 30.
Oh....I like that!
On the contrary, I am discussing the matter, just a little deeper than the bravado "dammit I ought to be able to strap a gun on anywhere" response, I'm discussing what needs to be considered to actually make it WORK.
Fine. You ought to be able to strap a gun on and go anywhere. I support that. I'm already at the next level. HOW to do it.
Far too many of them don’t act mature. Period. That’s my practical consideration.
Never mind as Hair says. Even the fact many people would give up carrying because it can be incovenient. This last isn’t a reason not to allow guns, though.
My reasons that too many collegiates (who *dominate* the populace on campus and are often just a big mass of themselves with no other age groups to intervene or steady it) are NOT mature, are why maybe weapons shouldn’t be allowed to students.
And I’ll repeat Hair - stop attacking us like we’re the enemy.
How? You find a good holster and keep it tucked IWB or a pocket holster.
So what’s next? You say you’ve concealed carry, I don’t even believe you. You are acting like the gun will leap out of its holster or your pocket on its own.
Had this country not devolved into an emotional driven mess with the rest of the world, devoid of analytical thought and linear thinking, there might be a chance. However I see no instance of this becoming true. We have only to look at the last few days and the coming onslaught attacking everything from the constitution to the facts of life.
You will next be accused of being a commie liberal. When I know well that’s not true (and I know you better than they). ;-)
At least you will be accused of being a Rudy supporter.
Dude... I didn’t decide what age people could get CWP. There’s longstanding law there that predates my birth, I think, that needs to be overturned. If you actually want to work toward that, do it and stop yelling at me about it.
You don’t know Hair. I know her better than you and you’re wrong. She is a carrier.
If you've never thought about these issues, it's you who I don't believe have ever actually carried.
Well, it’s very easy to conceal without printing. I had a good instructor at my CHL class I guess. Just go to kramerleather.com and you’ll have tons of options. IWB with a t-shirt is invisible. I’ve NEVER been spotted out, even by family that know I carry. I’ll pull the gun out when I get home and they had no clue.
Thought about, yes. Carrying without printing is easy. I mean *easy*. In a fanny pack, with a pocket holster, with an IWB holster.
I carry a Glock 32 IWB. With t-shirts. And that’s a medium size gun and I’m a medium size person. It doesn’t phase me anymore that anyone will notice after 6 years.
I agree. There are very few responsibilities that they have been forced to cope with. It's a "learning environment" in more than one way.
My reasons that too many collegiates (who *dominate* the populace on campus and are often just a big mass of themselves with no other age groups to intervene or steady it) are NOT mature, are why maybe weapons shouldn’t be allowed to students.
Ah... so one person with enough maturity and a gun is NOT in fact better off than one person disarmed because of the immaturity of the group?
Collectivism at it's finest.
And I’ll repeat Hair - stop attacking us like we’re the enemy.
You are the ones stating that legal Adults should have their Rights restricted because of a few bad actors. The very problems we are currently discussing wouldn't be problems with more responsible people armed rather than the bad apples.
So yes, in this instance, you are on the side of the gun grabbers here. Your "limited access" is damn near as bad as the Brady "no access" crap. You would rather set up a "some animals are more equal than others" type scale for caryying arms rather than just leaving it up to each individual to make the choice.
How very Nanny State of you...
What’s next? we should put the newly formed government controlled CSA (Campus Security Agency) in charge of campus security, have routine searches, ban liquids and matches and place “Student marshals” in most classes like the airlines do.
/sarcasm
I knew what the risks were when I first replied to your post :~)
Deep, realistic, practical conversation about the issues can sometimes be difficult in a thread like this.
If we can't trust people to act like adults at 18-25, then maybe that age needs to be 30. It would do some bad things to our military, but thems the breaks...
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