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Should students be allowed to carry concealed weapons?
Christian Science Monitor ^ | April 18, 2007 | Jared Flesher and Alexandra Marks |

Posted on 04/18/2007 2:02:53 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

The deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech on Monday has reignited an emotional debate about whether students should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus.

Virginia Tech, like most universities around the country, forbids students from having guns on campus. But as an increasing number of states have passed laws that allow people to carry concealed weapons, gun advocates from Virginia to Utah have also challenged the academic policies that prohibit weapons at colleges and universities.

[Big Snip]

"Almost every college that has looked at this issue feels they can do a better job of protecting their students by banning guns on campus and taking responsibility to provide good security," says Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington. "I'm not sure any campus would like to advertise, 'Come to our campus. We have more guns per capita than any other campus.' "

When the issue is debated again as expected this year in Virginia, gun-control advocates will be lining up with members of the academic community in opposing an expanded presence of guns on campus. They believe the problem is that the country already has too many guns.

"We have access to these weapons, and there are people who get angry, and with that access they will use them," says Jim Sollo, vice president of Virginians Against Handgun Violence, a group with 800 members that advocates gun-control measures. "I fear that we will continue to have mass shootings here in the United States."

But gun advocate Mr. Van Cleave contends that control is not the solution. "Gun control only works with the good guys," he says. "Good people obey the laws. The people you're worried about don't. I don't think [the campus shooting] is going to bode well for gun control."

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; guns; selfdefense
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To: the OlLine Rebel
How do you explain courtrooms and state houses and the like?

Did you read my entire post?
Courtrooms are places where, many times, threats have been issued against the defendant, or the judge, or the jury. The entire court house I don't agree with.

Centers of state or federal government are places where assassination attempts are the most likely to happen. Key governmental persons are there on a regular basis and their schedules and routes are, many times, known before hand.
Buut the state, as an entity, should not base the right to carry a weapon on the basis of, "It COULD happen anywhere."

201 posted on 04/18/2007 8:03:41 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: ExSoldier
I was at the University from ‘79 to 82. Did’t have a permit but carried a Hi Power fairly often. Also generally kept a shotgun or rifle in my truck depending on if it was deer or turkey season.
I was taught to handle firearms from the time I was 7 yo and taught about gun safety from the time I was born. When I was in high school my friends and I usually kept a rifle or shotgun in our vehicles so we could go hunting for an hour or so after school. Maybe kids have changed but using and understanding firearms is not rocket science and all kids should be trained in their safe use.
It’s maybe only a coincidence but I don’t recall there being many school shootings back then. Of course, we didn’t advertise that our school was a “Gun Free Zone”. What idiocy. As a matter of fact our principle was an ex county cop and we all assumed he had access to a weapon. I know for a fact that several teachers did.
202 posted on 04/18/2007 8:04:39 AM PDT by saleman
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To: Drammach

Monday, the Gun Control groups clearly had the upper hand.


203 posted on 04/18/2007 8:05:18 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Little derringers are cute and may be better than nothing at all, but my actual carry gun of choice, considering all the choices and implications, is a little bigger and better for actually shooting with.


204 posted on 04/18/2007 8:06:34 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Tolsti

No you clearly haven’t. I said NON-STUDENT ADULTS ON CAMPUS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CARRY.

I’d consider students who were over 21, but would need more time to think on it.


205 posted on 04/18/2007 8:09:47 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Tolsti
Dorms do pose a problem. There are small guns and small safes that you can be sure nobody will get into. gunvault.com makes them.

Well... thanks for at least acknowledging what I was saying. Dorms are a little different in that they're a lot more casual and social than any off-campus apartment I've ever lived in. My only point is that they do have some issues to consider if I was a kid living in one and wanting to keep a gun there. THAT'S ALL I WAS SAYING.

206 posted on 04/18/2007 8:10:03 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: CodeToad

We may argue back and forth about whether students - or anyone else for that matter - should be allowed to carry concealed weapons. Certainly, there are solid, practical arguments being made by brilliant scholars against this that may even carry the day.

That does not change the fact that 32 innocent people were killed by a single man with a Glock because they did not have the means to adequately defend themselves.

It does not change the fact that over 3000 people were killed by people with nothing more than boxcutters, because the passengers and crews did not have the means to adequately defend themselves.

Even though it is a fundamental precept of our Constitution that all human beings have the God-given right to do so.


207 posted on 04/18/2007 8:10:20 AM PDT by soxfan
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To: Dead Corpse

My points are valid too. IMO. As yours are IYO. And some of yours are valid even IMO.

My overall view remains the same when taking all points into consideration. For now. I could be convinced but you aren’t doing it for me (I’m blunt, but I try not to be rude until I’ve been attacked needlessly too many times).


208 posted on 04/18/2007 8:12:00 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: soxfan
The right of self-defense is like you said an inherent right. We must never be deprived of it.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

209 posted on 04/18/2007 8:12:41 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Well, I’ve said students and non-students over 21 from the beginning. Don’t get angry, we almost agree.

Just gotta get you over being against over 21 year old students.


210 posted on 04/18/2007 8:13:01 AM PDT by Tolsti
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To: Tolsti
Let me toss a little more fuel on the fire. I've carried a firearm almost every day of my life since I was 18. I did the gunsmithing school where guns were plentiful. I teach shooting sports to children 9 years old and up. I teach Hunter safety to young children too. I've taught hundreds of children how to shoot firearms and archery equipment and not one of these kids has ever had a n accident with a weapon or murdered anyone.
I have taken the classes for concealed carry and I have given the same classes. A big part of the instruction is all about when to shoot and when not to shoot.
I think the big difference here is that we live in a very rural area. Every home here has firearms. Every truck has at least a .22 behind the seat. To us guns are a necessary tool of our life. The city folk view guns with the mental picture of a gang banger shooting a two year old kid in a drive by.
We teach and work with our kids on the safety and proper use of firearms from a very young age. By the time they are 12 they are hunting with a rifle of their own, still supervised, but they are carrying and firing their own weapon. There are almost never accidents.
In the city the kids get their firearms training off of TV or from listening to Rap or Hip Hop music. In the real world where guns do exist why isn't someone taking the time to teach these kids the responsibility of having a gun in their hands? City folks don't do that, they just scream for the cops and let the gungrabbers comfort them with their take all guns away fantasy cure. It works until tomorrow when another 2 year old is killed in a drive by.
211 posted on 04/18/2007 8:14:56 AM PDT by oldenuff2no
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To: Tolsti

That may be a point (but how do you judge responsibility - having a gun license doesn’t mean you’re not a “partying” idiot otherwise). But I’m afraid as Hair points out, the conditions of dorm life (and maybe daily campus between-class activities) may make them too easily fall into the hands of the other half. Even if done in innocence. (Most of what I would fear would be accidents, not intentionals - although that would happen with a@$holes who don’t like how you look at them.)


212 posted on 04/18/2007 8:16:57 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

The ‘other half’ almost certainly has access to crack, guns, heroin, whatever, whenever.

Legally or not.

To me, it’s still best to be able to protect yourself and train people to be responsible.


213 posted on 04/18/2007 8:18:22 AM PDT by Tolsti
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To: Texas Federalist

Haven’t noticed all the riots over the last 5 years when their team even WINS much less LOSES?


214 posted on 04/18/2007 8:18:25 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Dead Corpse

Yup, because I’ve had it.


215 posted on 04/18/2007 8:19:00 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Yes. You have. You have clearly stated that college age Adults are not mature enough to carry firearms. That there should be extra requirements for them to prove they will carry safely.

I'm still waiting for you to retract this and admit you have misread and misstated my opinion. I have never 'called for' any extra legal requirements for anyone. I have merely discussed the practical considerations and responsibilities we all have if we choose to exercise that right.

Apology?

216 posted on 04/18/2007 8:19:48 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
After the current news conference by law enforcement, I can only say in any way a student can feel and are safe yes they can. Reason did you see the VT news conference this morning and the troubling signals this student sent out? He was admitted to a mental health facility. He stalked two women. The college students in his dorm reported him. Since society says they must help themselves, then we as society must do everything to keep our children safe. Parents send their kids to college to get an education and have a much better life then parents have had . Since our laws will not protect them , we either have to change the mental health laws , or protect our kids by other means. I prefer to hospitalize these poor kids who are sick before another heart break occurs.If the laws would let the people who know these kids, love them and know they need help , get them into hospitals before this happens again I would be very happy.
217 posted on 04/18/2007 8:21:40 AM PDT by betsyross1776 (BIG HOME DO NOT BUY YOU HAPPINESS)
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To: Tolsti

Sorry I don’t have a litany of lawsuits on my desk to read off, nor am I versed in them. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. At least coming to trial.

If it can happen over hot coffee, it can happen over someone getting shot. It should be obvious how people are so sue-happy these days - and juries (the same “peers”) are so much more worried about “safety” and emotions than laws.


218 posted on 04/18/2007 8:23:47 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: betsyross1776

Very good points. If nuts are allowed to roam like this, is it safe to have unguarded target zones anywhere?

And this is even considering the jihadists who are obviously watching and thinking “think of another Beslan situation there”


219 posted on 04/18/2007 8:25:10 AM PDT by Tolsti
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To: the OlLine Rebel

The facts just don’t agree. You need to understand concealed carry laws are written, and they provide places without bans protection against lawsuit at the top.


220 posted on 04/18/2007 8:26:19 AM PDT by Tolsti
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