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Should students be allowed to carry concealed weapons?
Christian Science Monitor ^ | April 18, 2007 | Jared Flesher and Alexandra Marks |

Posted on 04/18/2007 2:02:53 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: HairOfTheDog
I'm already on logistics.

Hehhe...

Ok... Theft seems to be a big concern. I've already given some ideas on that. Lock it up if you aren't going to carry it or be in the room to prevent it from being taken. Common sense.

How about actual carry? Open? Concealed? What about other weapons? Knives, saps, ect...

Setting up a campus firearms safety courses would be fairly easy. The same curriculum currently being used by NRA instructors across the Nation is readily available. You could even make it an Elective Course for a Humanities credit. Testing out, or even "life experience credit", could be given to those who are prior military or are already CCW carriers.

Can you think of other logistics?

261 posted on 04/18/2007 9:43:59 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Just another Joe

So you’re saying because others cannot see that the “emotional” immature less-reliable youngster has a firearm, it can be more dangerous for those others?

Thanks for explanation.


262 posted on 04/18/2007 9:46:17 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The campus police should be allowed to carry weapons. Also better surveillance of the campus should be a must. CCTV placement throughout the campus and buildings.
263 posted on 04/18/2007 9:47:39 AM PDT by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
So you’re saying because others cannot see that the “emotional” immature less-reliable youngster has a firearm, it can be more dangerous for those others?

Basically, yes.

264 posted on 04/18/2007 9:49:02 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: durasell
negligently wounding? negligent homicide PLUS civil liabilities? I know from the experience of my friends that police are sure as h*ll not immune from being sued -- and losing -- for excessive force when firing back at someone who attacked them.

Again, it's a "compared to what?" situation. Even with a few students killed by friendly fire, I bet we'd have seen way less than 33 dead if students had been armed.

Further, after glancing through the thread here, I think incompetence works its way UP the chain. If we tolerate incompetence among the citizenry we will get it from our LEOs. I know I have seen for incredibly incompetent LEO's and extremely professional ones as well. Currently, though, it seems that a lot of us are saying we MUST rely on the incompetent officials rather than strive to make ourselves competent and prepared. That is not the America of the Founders.

265 posted on 04/18/2007 9:49:11 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus loves me, this I know, for his Mother tells me so. (and the Church and the Bible too))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

“But gun advocate Mr. Van Cleave contends that control is not the solution. “Gun control only works with the good guys,” he says. “Good people obey the laws. The people you’re worried about don’t. I don’t think [the campus shooting] is going to bode well for gun control.”

Van Cleave is right on target. In this case it’s too bad a “good guy” wasn’t armed to take out the demented perp. One thing I have a problem with; is why a non-American citizen can buy a gun legally. The constitution should not pertain to non-citizens.


266 posted on 04/18/2007 9:51:18 AM PDT by KenmcG414
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To: Dead Corpse

I mentioned in my earlier posts about the logistical considerations of carrying concealed, particularly in the kind of clothes college kids usually wear, especially in good weather. It’s not easy to carry concealed on your body in t-shirt and shorts, particularly for women. So we end up with guns in purses, backpacks and fanny packs. Fine, as long as you never set them down and walk away. Most lectures, that’s not a problem, we have our bag at our feet. But there are situations where I know it’s come up when I’m at work. Going off to work in a small group, getting up in front of the class, and for me... going to the copy machine down the hall... I had to carry my purse with me. Leaving it at my desk, which did not lock, even for a moment, was not good enough.


267 posted on 04/18/2007 9:52:27 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Not pre-kinder.


268 posted on 04/18/2007 9:52:39 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Almost every college that has looked at this issue feels they can do a better job of protecting their students by banning guns on campus and taking responsibility to provide good security," says Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington. "I'm not sure any campus would like to advertise, 'Come to our campus. We have more guns per capita than any other campus.' "

I bet those schools would have, over the next few years, like cities and towns that have concealed carry laws, lower crime than those that are "gun free."
269 posted on 04/18/2007 9:57:29 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: HairOfTheDog
What are your thoughts on open carry?

Personally, I prefer open carry as it doesn't have a lot of the clothing limitations concealed does, has faster access to my firearm, and has a "condition the sheep" aspect to it.

Yes, I have discussed the "concealed=surprise for the bad guy" tactical argument. This doesn't hold up when you consider that military and police do not carry concealed.

270 posted on 04/18/2007 9:58:38 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Almost every college that has looked at this issue feels they can do a better job of protecting their students by banning guns on campus and taking responsibility to provide good security," says Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington.

That's the rub, isn't it, they take away your ability to defend yourself and then fail miserably to protect you.

271 posted on 04/18/2007 10:00:41 AM PDT by RJL
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To: the OlLine Rebel
"But so many seem to want it lowered or removed - it is, after all, a natural right, no (and it is)? ;-)"

Yes it is. The concept and law of the age of majority applies. As it is, one can possess a handgun under the supervision and authority of a person 21, or older. 18 is the generally recognized age of majority. A person can own any long gun at that age. I see no problem with allowing a few of them discretely on any campus in living quarters that contain the student's other property.

Handgun ownership and CCW is different. It is cnsidered by society as an acitvity that requires more adult experience and maturity than the simple age of majority. It is one of those things, like alcohol consumption that is left to the traditional age of majority, which is 21. I see no compelling weight of reason to change the 21 y/o age limit as the point where the right is recognized.

The vast number of violent attacks on campuses and off are against women, that includes those between 18-21. I would not be opposed to licencing programs that would extend to folks between 18-21 a priviledge to obtain a CCW permit and use a handgun under adult sponsorship, until their right is recognized at 21.

272 posted on 04/18/2007 10:07:52 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Dead Corpse
What are your thoughts on open carry?

Fairly unrestricted open carry is actually the law where I live (WA) but no one does it and it would create a stir in some settings. It's not the societal norm. I'm not personally opposed to it, but I don't think society is ready, today, for open carry, not in the city, not in a class room.

273 posted on 04/18/2007 10:10:39 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington. "I'm not sure any campus would like to advertise, 'Come to our campus. We have more guns per capita than any other campus.' "

Better that than advertising to killers, "Come to our campus. This is a gun-free zone; you can kill as many people here as you want, and nobody will stop you."

274 posted on 04/18/2007 10:36:23 AM PDT by Dave Olson
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To: HairOfTheDog
Ok. How about setting up a few highly publicized events where open carry would be encouraged. Call them "Firearms Safety Days" or something. Set it up almost like a Art Fair with various booths for different topics relating to firearms carry, safety, history, and accessories? I'd be willing to volunteer my time to help set up and run such a thing.

This would provide an avenue for more of the public to see what all the fuss was about without scaring the poor little dears out of a years growth.

275 posted on 04/18/2007 10:57:57 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Dead Corpse

I don’t know... I think the challenge of changing public attitudes to accept open carry would be an uphill one. I think arguments for more unrestricted concealed carry, opening up some of the places that are restricted now, such as college campuses, would be an easier fight to win, but we do have to be ready with good answers to the logistics ~first~, which is what I’ve been trying to do here.


276 posted on 04/18/2007 11:03:18 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Dead Corpse

You know what I find absolutely absurd? (Being in MD, big surprise.)

How is it I can have my .38 in my home and in the gun shop, but man I better be careful if I’m “transporting” it! (Generally, between the same 2!) I might get taken in for having it on my car somewhere. God help me if I say I’m going to my cousin’s with it instead of a “certified gun shop”.

I really hate nullifying laws like this.


277 posted on 04/18/2007 11:04:58 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: HairOfTheDog
My post was about an attempt to mollify the general public and possibly win a few converts. Change the publics opinion via exercising legal carry in a way that is not a big "ohmygodthatpersoniscarryinganevilgun" type way. Just saying "we need fewer restrictions" is only part of the problem as you pointed out.

How would YOU go about trying to change the publics perception of lawful firearms carry? Specifically...

278 posted on 04/18/2007 11:14:10 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Maryland? I've never been there, but I have heard the news articles about your gun laws. My condolences on that...

This is another reason why a case like Parker needs to be heard by the SCOTUS. It may well be the only way to get the States to respect our individual RKBA again shy of forcibly removing them from the Legislature.

279 posted on 04/18/2007 11:16:33 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Doc91678
"The campus police should be allowed to carry weapons. Also better surveillance of the campus should be a must. CCTV placement throughout the campus and buildings."

Absolutely! Folks need to see video of the carnage and footage of the armed cops running in after it's all over.

280 posted on 04/18/2007 11:17:58 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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