The Neo-Blanshardites vs. the Evangelicals

First Things ^ | July 16, 2007 | Robert P. George

[wideawake]

Catholics do not judge whether a person believes in Jesus Christ based on the congregation they belong to either.

The Pope did not say that Christian believers who are not Catholics aren't Christians.

They obviously are. The question is whether their ecclesial structures are adequate, not whether their hearts are true.

[muawiyah]

For many decades the only urban county in America without at least a 25% Roman Catholic presence was Marion County, Indiana (aka Indianapolis).

[muawiyah]

Really doesn't matter to Protestants. They are, after all, just buildings where people meet.

On the other hand most Protestants remain aghast at the idea of holding bingo (gambling) sessions in the basement of a church building.

[WKB]

Baptist Ping

[blue-duncan]

“The question is whether their ecclesial structures are adequate,”

Ecclesiastical structures are adequate for what?

[wideawake]

Ecclesiastical structures are adequate for what?

To dispense the sacraments.

[Campion]

But get a bunch of Catholics together so that they can dictate the cultural norms, and you find apostasy.

Yeah, Poland and Malta are such thoroughly apostate nations. [lol]

Wake up; the rest of the world is not like New England and doesn't fit into such predictable categories. The least churchgoing state in the nation is Oregon. Oregon is 15% Catholic. Guess you'll have to find another scapegoat, huh?

And New England Protestants cooked up more than their fair share of strange religious ideas. A certain religion that has their world headquarters and "Mother Church" in the Back Bay neighborhood of Boston wasn't founded by Catholics.

[franky1]

Catholic / Protestant

C-—Authority: Scripture and tradition

P-—Sola Scriptura - Scripture alone

Bible: C—— Includes apocrypha- P-— Excludes apocrypha

Results of Fall: C-— Corruption and tendency to sin/

P-—Total depravity and guilt

Free will:C-— Free to do good or evil /P-— Free only to do evil

Predestination: C-—Related to God’s foreknowledge /P-— Related to God’s decrees

Atonement: C-— Death of Christ created merit that is shared with sinners through sacraments /

P-—Death of Christ was a substitutionary sacrifice that satisfied God’s justice

Divine grace: C-— Prevenient grace helps one believe; efficacious grace cooperates with the human will to do good /

P-—Common grace enabling good works given to all; sufficient grace for salvation given to elect only

Good works:C-— Meritorious/ P-—Results of divine grace and unworthy of merit/

Salvation: C-— Received at baptism; may be lost by mortal sin; regained by penance. Those who have never heard of Christ may be saved. (Catech 847)

P-—Result of divine grace; unconditional. Those who have never heard of Christ may be saved. /

The Church: C-— The Catholic Church is “the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation” (Catech 845) but those baptized in other Christian denominations are in communion with the Church (Catech 838). /

P-—There is a distinction between the visible and invisible church. God saves anyone he chooses, or anyone with proper faith, regardless of church membership.

Sacraments:C-— Convey grace by their operation (ex opere operato).
/
P-—Means of grace only if received with faith.

C-—Priests A special vocation for some believers; mediators between God and man/

P-—Priesthood of all believers.

Transubstantiation: C-— Affirmed / P-— Rejected

Purgatory: C-— Affirmed P-— / Denied

Prayer to saints: C-— Accepted / P-— Rejected

[Huber]

Matter of fact, point to me a place in the US where there is a SINGLE religion that outnumbers Catholics

Well, in the South, that would be both Southern Baptists and Methodists. The Baptists are generally very strongly pro-life. The Methodists are... well... Methodists.

[franky1]

<<<”On the other hand most Protestants remain aghast at the idea of holding bingo (gambling) sessions in the basement of a church building.”>>>

Do they still stay “aghast” about the dinners for divorced and remarried wedding partners held in the basement?

[franky1]

<<<”On the other hand most Protestants remain aghast at the idea of holding bingo (gambling) sessions in the basement of a church building.”>>>

Do they still stay “aghast” about the dinners for divorced and remarried wedding partners held in the basement?

[Iowegian]

Easy. Minnesota - Lutherans

Utah - LDS

South - Baptists

[Aquinasfan]

The church is the body of Christ, not (big "c") Catholicism.

And the Bible calls Christ's Church "the pillar and foundation of truth."

So how can there be thousands of "pillars of truth" espousing contradictory doctrines? As far as I know, there isn't a single doctrine that all non-Catholic Christians agree on, including sola scriptura, except that they all reject the papacy.

Matthew 28:18-20

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

The Great Commission includes baptism and instruction in the faith which was handed on to the Apostles.

[conservonator]

New England is the only place where Catholicism is the majority denomination. It is much easier for a Catholic in the south or midwest to be devout because all their friends are Protestants, and they are devout too. But get a bunch of Catholics together so that they can dictate the cultural norms, and you find apostasy.

You need to get out more. Of all my family, friends and acquaintances, Catholic, Protestant and other, the Catholics are far more likely to attend service than any other group. This is by a wide margin, very wide. Could be because in the Midwest, it's typically Catholic or mainline Protestant, in this part of Iowa, it's basically Catholic or Lutheran. In this particular county, Catholics are the majority and our 1400 family parish church is usually 3/4 to overflowing for four services each weekend. Lent and Advent seasons are crazy packed.

BTW, your contention that the Yankee states are the only place where Catholicism is the majority denomination is silly.

[franky1]

<<<”The more prayerful the Catholic, the less likely he is to describe Bible-only Christians that way.”>>>

I totally agree. The sin of pride is always in one’s attitude to another. I include all in my prayers.

I’ll take a wager that there will be many, many non Catholics waitng for many Catholics at Heavens’ door.

[Jibaholic]

Nice chart, I remember seeing something similar after the 2004 presidential election because of the high correlation between Catholic states and Democratic states. That picture bears it out.

[Iowegian]

Yes, that proves that the higher the rate of RC’s in the population, the more liberal the electorate.

[conservonator]

Is that your attempt to admit that you were incorrect in your assertion that the NE is the only part of the country that is Catholic?

[conservonator]

Possibly, lots of people who call them selves Catholic don’t vote like a Catholic should. But the point of posting the graphic was to demonstrate to another poster that he was wrong in asserting that the NE was the sole bastion of Catholicism.

[AzaleaCity5691]

To put a religious inference in your statement regarding New England and the South is dumb. For one thing, the South is not a Protestant monolith, just as New England is not a Catholic monolith. That you could make such a statement already casts aspersion on the logic of your reasoning, but let’s take your argument to task.

All I am going to say is, church attendance in southern Louisiana, which is largely Catholic, is on the exact same par with northern Louisiana, which is Bible Belt Protestant.