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Papers Please: Arrested At Circuit City (Donations welcome, the ACLU will get most of it)
MichaelRighi.com ^ | September 2nd, 2007 | Michael Righi,

Posted on 09/03/2007 3:19:20 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat

Today was an eventful day. I drove to Cleveland, reunited with my father’s side of the family and got arrested. More on that arrested part to come.

For the labor day weekend my father decided to host a small family reunion. My sister flew in from California and I drove in from Pittsburgh to visit my father, his wife and my little brother and sister. Shortly after arriving we packed the whole family into my father’s Buick and headed off to the grocery store to buy some ingredients to make monkeybread. (It’s my little sister’s birthday today and that was her cute/bizare birthday request.)

Next to the grocery store was a Circuit City. (The Brooklyn, Ohio Circuit City to be exact.) Having forgotten that it was my sister’s birthday I decided to run in and buy her a last minute gift. I settled on Disney’s “Cars” game for the Nintendo Wii. I also needed to purchase a Power Squid surge protector which I paid for separately with my business credit card. As I headed towards the exit doors I passed a gentleman whose name I would later learn is Santura. As I began to walk towards the doors Santura said, “Sir, I need to examine your receipt.” I responded by continuing to walk past him while saying, “No thank you.”

As I walked through the double doors I heard Santura yelling for his manager behind me. My father and the family had the Buick pulled up waiting for me outside the doors to Circuit City. I opened the door and got into the back seat while Santura and his manager, whose name I have since learned is Joe Atha, came running up to the vehicle.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsite.michaelrighi.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abuse; privacy
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: freekitty

“””You cannot leave Fry’s without a bag check either.”””

“””You can’t with Walmart either.”””


101 posted on 09/03/2007 5:30:09 PM PDT by ansel12 (First, cut off them off from jobs, benefits and other fruits of our society, Feed attrition.)
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To: Right Wing Assault; liege
I have a real problem with being delayed while someone looks at my receipt as if this is going to prevent theft.

My policy is, when they ask to see my receipt, I tell them to walk with me. Usually, they just reply they can't leave their spot, so I keep on walking. Works most times.

Oh, and whenever they look at my receipt, I ask them not to put any marks on it. If they use their highlighter, and assuming that I have the time, I just ask for an unmarked receipt (while standing in the door). After all, the receipt is my property too.

102 posted on 09/03/2007 5:31:56 PM PDT by par4 (Scruting the inscrutable since the 20th century)
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To: edcoil

“You cannot leave Fry’s without a bag check either.”

Last year I was at the local Walmart and they tried that check the bag s**t on me on the way out. I let the person check, then I turned around, went straight to the customer service counter which was a few feet away, plopped the bags on the counter and said “Take this stuff and give me a refund.” When they asked why, and the door person was right there, having followed me, I told them “Any business that automatically assumes thier customers are thieves is not getting my business. There are plenty of other stores.” Took my refund and left.


103 posted on 09/03/2007 5:33:34 PM PDT by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won't hafta)
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To: Tafts Ghost

Since when is Circuit City part of the GOVERNMENT, which is what the Constitution keeps in check.


104 posted on 09/03/2007 5:35:06 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Of the potential GOP front runners, FT has one of the better records on immigration.- NumbersUSA)
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To: listenhillary

Since this thread is back....I’ll repost here; as I already sent this to you privately, no response is necessary, lh.

It’s possible it’s a fund raising ploy for the ACLU; for that reason alone I would never contribute to this guy.

But I think he raises a valid point concerning police authority to arrest when ID is not produced when no crime has even been committed. There doesn’t appear to be an Ohio law that forces consumers to allow their property, once purchased, to be subject to inspection, or consumers to be illegally detained, otherwise I’m sure the cop would have made sure to include that on the charges pressed against him.

This guy did not commit a theft, and the store had no suspicions or evidence of such. He merely did not allow his bag to be inspected or produce a receipt.

That, in itself, is not grounds for suspicion of theft to warrant detaining. Stores have to have actual suspicion of a theft HAVING already occurred...meaning, the person must be outside the property, and this same person must have been observed to take property for which they did not pay.

I dislike the idea of being forced to produce identification to police for no reason. IMO, there was no legal reason that the cop arrested this guy. Unless there is an Ohio law that we do not yet know about....but then, again, the cop would have charged him for more than a failure to produce ID.


105 posted on 09/03/2007 5:54:35 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: Politicalmom
Since when is Circuit City part of the GOVERNMENT, which is what the Constitution keeps in check.

They must be since their employees broke the law with impunity

Serious...the vic did go over the top but the CC guys broke the law and the cop should get zinged too. Best I can tell, everyone loses on this one
106 posted on 09/03/2007 5:57:13 PM PDT by Starwolf
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To: Redbob

I’ve found that at Walmart and other stores including Circuit City, CompUSA, etc., if I walk out holding the receipt in my hand or “reading” it, I never get stopped. I’ve pretty much removed their cause for concern, and in fact turned the tables by seeming to check my receipt to see that *I* didn’t get ripped off.
The only place you can’t do that is BJ’s (and perhaps other shopper’s clubs) that have a policy of checking your cart and marking your receipt when you leave.


107 posted on 09/03/2007 5:59:40 PM PDT by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: visualops; All

Ohio Shoplifter Detention Law

http://downloads.ohiobar.org/pub/busres/fineprint/osba_fine_print_issue005.pdf


108 posted on 09/03/2007 6:05:52 PM PDT by crazyshrink
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To: gcruse

I agree with those who support the receipt/bag checks. I get receipts checked at Sams, Costco, Walmart and Best Buy, among others, all the time. Assuming it is a search under the Constitution, it isn’t unreasonable, to my mind. There’s no expectation of privacy in goods just purchased from a store.

But the the main thing I see here is someone just looking to be upset, and to have family members upset. This guy seems to have WANTED to be harmed. He wasn’t.


109 posted on 09/03/2007 6:06:46 PM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: conservativeharleyguy

Well obviously it is illegal to be an ass if you are refusing to show your ID to an officer. So yes because he feels that Best Buy’s policy of checking bag contents is wrong he gives a guy trying to make an earning a hard time, wastes the time of the police officers, hence forth costing me and you money and taking them away from places and people who may be in real need or committing a real crime all too serve the self-serving ass’s ego. Sorry real or fake but if somebody is actually doing this karma is going after them, not me.


110 posted on 09/03/2007 6:18:45 PM PDT by aft_lizard (born conservative...I chose to be a republican)
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To: joebuck
It means that if you are going to be an ass the cop can seriously screw up your night. Even if he can’t make a charge stick, you still lose.

Except for the following false arrest lawsuit. This guy was told he was being arrested for something that the law says he can't be arrested for. Then the cop, whose official business was to protect this guy from the people unlawfully detaining him, arrested him for interfering with that business, when the cop himself took no action in furtherance of that business.

111 posted on 09/03/2007 6:35:41 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Leatherneck_MT

When the state has the power to arrest you simply because you fail to provide your DL, even when not operating a vehicle, I will fight to have that law put aside.

Currently, the state does NOT have that power. Nor do businesses have the right to search you at random. If they suspect you of a crime, they can detain you, and then call the police.

This is a case that could easily have gone away, if the victim here had just bent over and followed the demands of those who were trying to unlawfully detain him, or to the demands of the policeman who was unlawfully demanding to see a DL of someone not in control of a vehicle.

It’s an individual’s right to choose which path to take, in the face of such wrongful detention, and maybe most of us would have chosen a different path.

I will not criticize a man who decides to take a stand on principle, when defending his rights.

I will question his judgement in contacting the ACLU, however, since they only defend the rights of those who wish to perpetuate evil.


112 posted on 09/03/2007 6:38:47 PM PDT by jim35 ("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
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To: conservativeharleyguy

“When exactly did it become illegal to be “an ass”?”

Well said, conservativeharleyguy.


113 posted on 09/03/2007 6:41:18 PM PDT by jim35 ("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
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To: Golden Eagle
The police on the scene already charged this idiot instead, hopefully a charge for improperly paging 911will be tacked on as well.

Yep, they tried to charge him for something the law says they can't. Hopefully he wins his false arrest lawsuit and has this cop's job -- and a bunch of cash from CC and the employees' job for their criminal action (yes, this one is actually subject to criminal prosecution).

So who changed the title of the thread, you in search of donations for the ACLU, or the moderator to show how ridiculous you look?

I didn't. I don't like the donation angle either, as this guy is apparently fully capable of defending himself and pursuing the violations of his rights. You shouldn't be asking for money unless you really need it. Maybe we'll get lucky and the money will be used in the rare occasion where the ACLU actually defends real constitutional rights.

114 posted on 09/03/2007 6:41:37 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Chuck54

“...quit paying shyster lawyers to defend your “right” to not be offended.”

How about your right not to be detained?


115 posted on 09/03/2007 6:43:32 PM PDT by jim35 ("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
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To: jim35
I will question his judgement in contacting the ACLU, however, since they only defend the rights of those who wish to perpetuate evil.

Mostly, not only. They have their rare moments when they do good.

116 posted on 09/03/2007 6:44:57 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: small voice in the wilderness

“...just buy it on the internet.”

That is doing nothing more than ignoring the problem. If you don’t want to give stores the right to detain you at random, or police to arrest you for failing to produce your papers, then you should protest this.

If these things don’t bother you, then you can shop in public places without fear of being offended.

But simply hiding from this is hardly a solution. Sooner or later, you may want to buy groceries, hardware, whatever, without waiting for the item to come in the mail.


117 posted on 09/03/2007 6:47:37 PM PDT by jim35 ("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
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To: james500

LOL!!


118 posted on 09/03/2007 6:49:31 PM PDT by jim35 ("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
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To: driftdiver; antiRepublicrat

>>The main purpose of checking the receipt is to stop employee theft. Cashiers fail to actually scan items and just bag them. Rather than assume the responsibility of monitoring the cashiers they place the burden on their customer.

The more common issue is having a customer colluding with a cashier. More stuff goes into the bad, than gets scanned.

I’m not saying I agree with the checking, but that’s another reason stores play that game.

I’d also say it’s a different deal when there’s a membership involved, like Costco or Sam’s. While I don’t think in most states, they have the right to stop you, they do have the right to revoke your membership.


119 posted on 09/03/2007 6:54:12 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: antiRepublicrat

I figured it was the mods who changed the title, since your style is always to try to hide your ACLU ties. Obviously it’s not working LOL.


120 posted on 09/03/2007 6:55:49 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: MarkL

That backs up my previous post above.


121 posted on 09/03/2007 6:58:00 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: jim35
Let me take a shot and then shoot back.

The store has the right to inspect bags/receipt at the door and in their parking lot.

If you don't respond, the store has the right to enforce their policy, even with reasonable force. It is reasonable to conclude from your response that you are stealing their property.

Store employees can even make citizen's arrests.

Your failure to respond to their policy and verbal requests is in and of itself reason to detain.

On the practical side, most stores do not equip or train their employees to carry this out. So usually they will follow the perp and write down a license number while they call the police.

The police can come and arrest you or talk to you. You have given them enough reason to take you into custody.

122 posted on 09/03/2007 6:59:05 PM PDT by pierstroll
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To: AppyPappy
GOL DANG IT!!! MY DADDY FOUGHT THE GOLDANG RED JAPANESE SO I WOULDN’T HAVE TO SHOW MY BAG WHEN I LEAVE THE STORE!! THIS IS LIKE SOVIET GERMANY ALL OVER AGAIN!!!`

Forget it. He's rolling.

123 posted on 09/03/2007 7:02:45 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (There's more than one way to burn a book - Ray Bradbury)
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To: small voice in the wilderness

>>FGS, just buy it on the internet.

Instant gratification. It’s an integral part of The American Way™.


124 posted on 09/03/2007 7:03:42 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Hmm, seems like the arrest record should be a public record. Wonder if some sort of verification of his story could be found via web postings of said info on the local government’s web site?


125 posted on 09/03/2007 7:11:23 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Tafts Ghost

I thought the Constitution applied to the government. If you are leaving private property, I’m not sure probably cause is a player.


126 posted on 09/03/2007 7:12:56 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I'm agnostic on evolution, but sit ups are from Hell!)
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To: ansel12

Depends on the Wal Mart — when we lived in Maryland, we’d get stopped EVERY time (we only lived there a year THANK G-D!) . . . back here in Texas, never.

The ONLY time I get stopped at Wal Mart is when the cashier forgets to scan the sensor thingie and the door thingie goes BEEP BEEP BEEP! Otherwise, no problem. And apparently the beeper going off is more about the cashiers if it is an item validly purchased. One of the greeters told me that — so who knows if it is true — but they do document.

I know though, that ymmv with WalMart - by region, theft rate, location (even within cities shoplifting rates vary), etc.


127 posted on 09/03/2007 7:23:21 PM PDT by twinzmommy
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To: visualops
The only place you can’t do that is BJ’s (and perhaps other shopper’s clubs) that have a policy of checking your cart and marking your receipt when you leave.

I can't remember, but my Sam's membership contract probably has a clause allowing them to do this. I didn't have a contract with Wal-Mart allowing that last time I checked. Still, whenever I go I don't really care if the old lady wants to look at my receipt. It gives her a job, and my kid gets a kick giving it to her -- they usually draw smiley faces and give it back.

128 posted on 09/03/2007 7:26:06 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Golden Eagle
I figured it was the mods who changed the title, since your style is always to try to hide your ACLU ties.

Prove these ties or retract your libelous statement.

129 posted on 09/03/2007 7:29:12 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

Tied at the hip LOL. At least you’re not fooling anyone anymore.


130 posted on 09/03/2007 7:32:50 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: ChildOfThe60s
Hmm, seems like the arrest record should be a public record.

The web site doesn't appear to provide info like that. I called and got transferred to somebody's who's not there. It's probably too late in Ohio.

131 posted on 09/03/2007 7:35:16 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Golden Eagle
Tied at the hip LOL.

So no proof to back up your libelous statement about me. That's what I thought, because that's what you always do. Like I said before, I'd have a good civil case of libel against you for what you've said about me and how you've purposefully misrepresented my posts. The only problem is that everybody knows you're a lying troll, so I can't show any damage to my reputation.

132 posted on 09/03/2007 7:38:30 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
I had my second and final run in with Circuit City yesterday. I will not be shopping there again, ever!

Friday I received a SPAM email from Circuit City that contained a coupon for an additional 10% off all purchases of $199 or greater with the provision that the the savings would automatically be deducted at check out. I went to the store and bought an LCD TV. When I asked for the 10% savings the sales associate said he didn't know what I was talking about and that it probably didn't apply to TVs. I went home, printed the email with the coupon and immediately returned to the store. I went to Customer Service with my receipt and the coupon and asked for my discount. The customer service person said she couldn't do it because the coupon did not have a bar code. I told her that that was not my problem and she needed to work it out.

She asked me if I could show her the original email. Using the Internet connection on the terminal she was working on I logged into my email account and showed her the email from Circuit City with the coupon. Again, no bar code. Following all available links also produced no barcode.

She phoned the company sales department and attempted to get some resolution. After several minutes of her relaying a conversation between the sales rep and me I asked to speak to him directly. He then proceeded to inform me that the coupon was for an online purchse only and the check out referred to was an online checkout. While I was explaining to him that the email specifically stated three purchase options, (online, in store, and phone), not just online I attempted to make the online purchase on the internet connection at the customer service . No discount was applied. When I informed him of this he accused me of becoming abusive and not letting him finish his explanation.

I then proceeded to tell him that I had heard his explanation three times, I recited his explanation to him and asked him to confirm that I had indeed heard and understood his explanation. He acknowledged I had. I then told him that I was going to tell him my rebuttal for the third time and ask him to repeat it to me so that I could make sure he was indeed listening. He hung up on me.

I returned the TV, got my money back and will never shop there at any price.

133 posted on 09/03/2007 7:40:39 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: antiRepublicrat

You’re the one admitting to making calls in support of the ACLU right here on this thread, trying to blame me obviously isn’t going to work. How much money are you donating, or is it just all of your time?


134 posted on 09/03/2007 7:46:43 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Natural Law

What you described might be illegal. I don’t blame you for never going back.


135 posted on 09/03/2007 7:47:25 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Golden Eagle
You’re the one admitting to making calls in support of the ACLU

Now back up that statement. I want a clear instance where I made a call with the direct purpose of supporting the ACLU. The only call I made was trying to verify the story, obviously so because in context I was responding to someone thinking about verifying the story. As usual, you defend a lie with another lie.

Besides, you made your ACLU statement before I wrote about making the call, so you can't use it to support your statement.

136 posted on 09/03/2007 7:52:57 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
I make it a practice never to allow searches nor if challanged will I ever return inside a store with a loss prevention officer. When the alarms go off I don't even look back or change stride I just keep going. I walk out the door receipt visible in hand.

I set one off at one store and kept going. A kid comes running out behind me yelling Sir I must look at your bags. I said I have a receipt in hand for all items in this bag. He said you must let me look. I asked him do you have a witness or have me on camera stealing anything? He said no. I said well then if you don't then your not searching me then as the items are now my personal property. I then said now if you have proof of me stealing then you better call the police right now otherwise I'm leaving.

I got in the car and he stepped aside and was writing something down. I rolled down the window and asked what are you doing now. He said writing down your plate number and calling the police. I said and just what will you tell them? I didn't show you a receipt? I imagine the police told him what I did.

There is no state or local laws where I live that say I must do so. In my state unless there is a sign stating all items subject to search they can not legally search you at will or random without proof of theft. The anti-theft devices at doors are not by any means proof. Anything can set them off including a tag embedded in clothing you bought elsewhere, a cell phone, even a CB radio out in the parking lot, etc.

One of the funniest things I saw happened a long time ago. A rent-a-cop at a K-mart stapled a tag into a guys motorcycle helmet strap as he was entering the store. The guy said OK now call your manager. The manager came and the man said you can now buy me a new helmet for stapling {damaging} the straps on mine. The manager had to oblige him.

137 posted on 09/03/2007 7:58:11 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: twinzmommy

“”The ONLY time I get stopped at Wal Mart is when the cashier forgets to scan the sensor thingie and the door thingie goes BEEP BEEP BEEP! Otherwise, no problem. “”


Even I will give the courtesy of respecting the thingie, because that is an effort that I can respect, and a minor glitch when somebody is trying, is OK.


138 posted on 09/03/2007 7:58:15 PM PDT by ansel12 (First, cut off them off from jobs, benefits and other fruits of our society, Feed attrition.)
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To: antiRepublicrat

You’re obviously supporting their cause, like usual. Trying to deny it too of course, but everyone is getting wise to your tricks.


139 posted on 09/03/2007 8:02:12 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle; All

Sorry everybody. This troll has been stalking me from thread to thread, constantly spewing several proven (with hard links) lies, both factual and in an effort to libel me by misrepresenting my statements and positions on various subjects. His tactics have included grossly taking my statements out of their clear context not only within the thread, but even within the post, and as you see here furthering a personal attack when caught making an unsupported accusation against me.

I will now turn my troll filter on, and he should go away after I stop replying to him.

“We apologize for the inconvenience,” and the wasted bandwidth.


140 posted on 09/03/2007 8:07:28 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

You’re the one wasting bandwidth with your ACLU solicitations. Hopefully the creep you’re defending this time gets spanked in court, despite your best efforts to portray his ridiculous actions and call to 911 as justifiable.


141 posted on 09/03/2007 8:16:07 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: cva66snipe

The helmet thing was sad. What was the K-Mart guy thinking? “I think I’ll tear into the fabric that holds this helmet on to protect this rider’s head.”

Those stickers when you come in do make me mad. If they demand to put one on one of my possessions as I’m entering a store, I just walk right out and go to different one. Those things don’t come off easily. They’re usually good about it, but a long time ago they wanted to put a sticker on a very beat-up portable cassette player I had (seriously, this thing had been through countless field exercises and a war, and it looked like it). Common sense ain’t so common.


142 posted on 09/03/2007 8:18:22 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

Good luck with it.


143 posted on 09/03/2007 8:20:11 PM PDT by ansel12 (First, cut off them off from jobs, benefits and other fruits of our society, Feed attrition.)
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To: Golden Eagle

What is the sound of a brass buzzard screaming out lies between two thin horizontal lines? Silence.


144 posted on 09/03/2007 8:20:36 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: teledude
"What's the big deal...?"

There are some people that don't like being passively accused of being a thief. Those of weaker minds will humbly submit to the forced inspection by another private citizen. People that have some backbone, pride and dignity tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

145 posted on 09/03/2007 8:20:48 PM PDT by DaGman (`)
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To: teledude
"What's the big deal...?"

There are some people that don't like being passively accused of being a thief. Those of weaker minds will humbly submit to the forced inspection by another private citizen. People that have some backbone, pride and dignity tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. If the store has a shoplifting problem, it damn sure ain't my problem.

146 posted on 09/03/2007 8:21:18 PM PDT by DaGman (`)
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To: Chuck54
OK, I’ll bite. Just what in hell is wrong with them checking your receipt and/or looking in your bag?

Nothing at all, or at least no more than is wrong with me never darkening their door in the first place.

As a matter of good business practice you should never incorporate into your business model a process by which your customers must prove they aren't stealing from you.

147 posted on 09/03/2007 8:25:35 PM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: antiRepublicrat
brass buzzard screaming out lies

This coming from antiRepublican who has admitted he knowingly posted lies for months in defense of Russian criminals.

148 posted on 09/03/2007 8:28:56 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: aft_lizard
Well, I also would not choose this particular hill to die on, but the guy is NOT an asshole or if he is it's assholes like him that will hold the line on individual rights.

In his own words (but you likely didn't read that far)
"I understand that my day would have gone a lot smoother if I had agreed to let loss prevention inspect my bag. I understand that my day would have gone a lot smoother if I had agreed to hand over my driver’s license when asked by Officer Arroyo. However, I am not interested in living my life smoothly. I am interested in living my life on strong principles and standing up for my rights as a consumer, a U.S. citizen and a human being. Allowing stores to inspect our bags at will might seem like a trivial matter, but it creates an atmosphere of obedience which is a dangerous thing. Allowing police officers to see our papers at will might seem like a trivial matter, but it creates a fear-of-authority atmosphere which can be all too easily abused"

149 posted on 09/03/2007 8:29:46 PM PDT by Lloyd227 (and may God bless Oriana Fallaci)
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To: Shots
The guy is a jerk there is no other way to put it. What is so hard about showing a receipt let alone looking in your bag?

So standing up for your rights is now being a jerk. Guess you'd call me an a$$hole for what I would have done.

150 posted on 09/03/2007 8:38:00 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (“Jesus Saves. Moses Delivers. Cthulu Reposesses...”)
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