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BREAKING: Judge halts state's morning-after pill rules (drug stores CAN opt out)
The Associated Press (Via The News Tribune of Tacoma WA) ^ | 11/8/07

Posted on 11/08/2007 5:33:25 PM PST by llevrok

ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: November 8th, 2007 01:07 PM

A federal judge has suspended Washington’s requirement that pharmacists sell “morning-after” birth control pills. The injunction says pharmacists can refuse to sell the morning-after pill, referring a customer instead to a nearby source.

It’s part of a lawsuit by two pharmacists and a drugstore owner, who claim in a lawsuit that the state’s birth-control sales rules violated their civil rights.

The morning-after pill, sold as “Plan B,” can dramatically lower the risk of pregnancy if taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex. Some critics consider the pill tantamount to abortion, although it has no effect on women who are pregnant.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: abortion; morningafter; pharmacy; planb; ruling; spartansixdelta
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To: agrace
And that goes both ways - no one should be able to force him to sell something he finds morally unconscionable, and no one should be able to force him to hire employees who WON’T sell his stuff.

Excatly!

121 posted on 11/09/2007 10:41:23 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: 4woodenboats
What if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if,...the background noise of any true nanny state.

Beautifully said.

122 posted on 11/09/2007 10:46:49 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: bbruit

So let me get this straight: Because this woman who had a small child and a low-paying job chose to have sex outside marriage and (in a stunning display of stupidity) did so without using birth control, we should have the state force private businesses to carry inventory they don’t want to carry, and force individuals to commit acts they believe are murder. That’s the position you’re taking?


123 posted on 11/09/2007 10:53:18 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: Gondring
I think we need Licensed Sporting Goods Dispensers who can refuse to sell ammo. Bit-by-Bit, the heat is turned up, the frog is cooking, and the sheeple don't recall the days back when they had rights.

Um...so you think the right to conduct one's business as he wishes (controlling ones own store inventory, making ones own ethical decisions, deciding who ones own customer base will be) isn't an important right? Or is it just not as important as sexual convenience?

124 posted on 11/09/2007 10:58:32 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: edsheppa

That I have no idea about.


125 posted on 11/09/2007 11:00:26 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: Mr. Silverback
When the original "Fuhrer" erupted over this, I ventured out to the newspaper message boards, which are of course dominated by the great unwashed hordes of this state, and used the argument that we are turning into a fascist state, thinking there would be some of the older, wiser hippies that would remember the good old days fighting against Big Brother dictating how we're going to live, what choices we're going to make.

What was I thinking, they can barely remember their names, much less the freedoms they used to pledge their lives to.

126 posted on 11/09/2007 11:01:31 PM PST by 4woodenboats (DefendOurMarines.com)
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To: Always Right; qam1; org.whodat; farlander; edsheppa; Octar; Non-Sequitur; MortMan; bbruit
For those of you who have been discussing whether there are really Freepers who would stand up for state control over the inventory of private businesses, there are some right here in this thread. See posts 42, 96 and 101 (with extra sob-story support at post 103). Each of these people believes that the state can require a pharmacist to carry a product in inventory he does not wish to carry, and force him to dispense it. Ironically, none of these three nanny-staters is one of the people I've debated that exact point with several times here on FR, so there are more out there.

As I said, some people--even conservatives--will give up their most cherished principles to preserve sexual convenience.

127 posted on 11/09/2007 11:03:29 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: 4woodenboats

It is amazing to me how many people’s idea of freedom is to have the government oppress others in order to make their personal lives easier.


128 posted on 11/09/2007 11:05:27 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: Octar

“Druggists are not the enforcers of your or their views. If they are permitted to override your doctor’s determination of your medical needs you will have more to worry about than you are yammering about now.”

If druggists are not allowed to look at the complete history of a patient, the patient can die from mixing the wrong drugs. Most of the time one drug will be prescribed by one doctor and another drug will be prescribed by a different doctor. The job of the pharmacist is to prevent your death or incapacitation by different doctors that don’t know what each other is doing.


129 posted on 11/09/2007 11:39:40 PM PST by mjaneangels@aolcom ("nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.")
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To: Mr. Silverback
So, the state can tell a person, "You have a choice between giving up your livelihood or doing something that your faith teaches is child murder," and you don't think that's an overreach for the state?

First, I think this policy sucks (this should answer your later questions).

Second, a person like Thompson who values federalism more than an amendment guaranteeing the right to life would, if he's consistent, oppose this federal judge's interference (my original point).

Third, on a purely legalistic, constitutional basis, no, it isn't an overreach in my opinion. It's not different, in principle, from requiring landlords to rent even to certain people of whom they vehemently disapprove on religious grounds. And, so far as I know, that regulation has been upheld.

But we shall see. If the courts overturn the policy I'll be very interested to see their reasoning.

130 posted on 11/09/2007 11:43:07 PM PST by edsheppa
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To: edsheppa
You didn't answer my question: If Washington state decided that doctors must provide abortion services at their office location to be licensed, would you agree to it in the same way you've agreed to this licensing requirement?

And why in the world would we allow a standard where you can't force a guy to kill the enemy in time of war but you can force a healer to kill a child?

131 posted on 11/10/2007 12:03:59 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Support Scouting: Raising boys to be strong men and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: bbruit
What did Suzanne Ruchards, 21, single mother of a 3-year-old, do to control her sexual and reproductive choices before Plan B came on the market? What did unmarried women do since Lucy the paleolithic progenitress over a million years ago? Geez! If you don't want a baby, you don't let some dude deposit a hundred million live spermatozoa up your genital tract.

She says she was "just trying to be responsible." This the very picture of shifting her responsibility off onto other people who do not want to be legally forced to cooperate with her madcap, makeshift, miniscule morality ---people do not want to be legally forced to help any paying customer destroy their newly-begotten offspring.

So Suzanne, who had three whole days to get this stupid chemical into her system, turns out not to be pregnant anyway. Lucky girl. What do you think she should do now?

I'm sorry to sound so exasperated about this, but my 8th grader is more responsible than this.

132 posted on 11/10/2007 5:09:21 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Octar
That's ridiculous! If the owner (or his management team by proxy) of the business cannot reserve the right to refuse service, then should we also lock consumers into the same ridiculous binding agreement where they cannot refuse their right to patronage?

Excellent ruling.

133 posted on 11/10/2007 5:37:54 AM PST by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: edsheppa
Second, a person like Thompson who values federalism more than an amendment guaranteeing the right to life would, if he's consistent, oppose this federal judge's interference (my original point).

As much as Fred is a federalist, Fred is not overly extreme about it. Drugs are controlled at the federal level by the FDA and unless Fred comes out against the FDA, I think it is rather presumptuous to say that Fred would oppose this ruling. As much as Fred is a federalist, Fred is not real consistent in how he applies it. For some reasons the issue like abortion, gay marriage, and tort reform are three of the issues Fred seems to take his federalist position a bit extreme. I like Fred, but I don't see consistency.

134 posted on 11/10/2007 7:13:39 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Mr. Silverback
Ironically, none of these three nanny-staters is one of the people I've debated that exact point with several times here on FR, so there are more out there.

Me too, that is why I posted a rather harsh statement early. I think it actually kept a few of them quiet because this is the tamest defense of such horrendous state policy which liberals are pushing.

135 posted on 11/10/2007 7:16:26 AM PST by Always Right
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To: llevrok

It occurs to me that NO ONE should be forced to sell something they don’t want to. If it’s the guys Pharmacy, then he should get to decide what he does and does not sell, given that the Meds are all legal. The state can just go to hell.


136 posted on 11/10/2007 7:43:11 AM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha (Smoke clears and Fred Thompson is President))
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To: Mr. Silverback
Um...so you think the right to conduct one's business as he wishes (controlling ones own store inventory, making ones own ethical decisions, deciding who ones own customer base will be) isn't an important right? Or is it just not as important as sexual convenience?

Actually, I think you and I are actually in agreement on this--it's just that I think we again need to look at the bigger picture.

What business is it of the government to tell a business what it must carry or dispense? What business is it of the government to make us have to go through a Government-Licensed Pharmacist to get what a doctor has prescribed? Except for public-health concerns like antibiotics, there's no reason I should have to go through the government system any more than I should have to consult a Professional Geologist before picking up stones on the beach.

On the more pragmatic side, abortions will occur regardless (I recall when I was naive enough to think the warnings on the health-food store herbal products "Not for Pregnant Women" was a warning and not a sales pitch!), and it's probably better for all involved that a Plan B prevention of conception is better than an induced miscarriage.

To be fair, though, I am still struggling with the idea of life beginning at conception...I've offered thousands of prayers in hopes of an answer as to why God would find it in His will to create and discard so many babies. So many miscarriages occur without the mother even realizing she's pregnant...for what purpose?

137 posted on 11/10/2007 8:59:42 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Mr. Silverback
If Washington state decided that doctors must provide abortion services at their office location to be licensed, would you agree to it in the same way you've agreed to this licensing requirement?

In the same order. First, I would oppose that policy. If it were on an Initiaiative, I would vote against it. I would vote against politicians who vote for it. Can I make it any clearer that I wouldn't "agree" with it? I feel the same way about this drug regulation at hand.

Second, Thompson would (should) oppose a federal judge overruling it on grounds of federalism.

Third, it still wouldn't be an overreach on a purely legalistic, constitutional basis. That is, I don't see the difference, in principle, between regulating doctors this way and the WA regulation of pharmacies.

138 posted on 11/10/2007 10:02:10 AM PST by edsheppa
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To: Always Right
Fred is not overly extreme about it.

The problem I see is that Fred has a very "unextreme" pro-life position. I'm not saying the fellow isn't pro-life, but rather that he thinks federalism is more important than the right to life.

139 posted on 11/10/2007 10:08:13 AM PST by edsheppa
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To: Gondring
What business is it of the government to tell a business what it must carry or dispense? What business is it of the government to make us have to go through a Government-Licensed Pharmacist to get what a doctor has prescribed? Except for public-health concerns like antibiotics, there's no reason I should have to go through the government system any more than I should have to consult a Professional Geologist before picking up stones on the beach.

You're comparing the education it takes to become a beachcomber to that of a pharmacist?

When was the last time a beachcomber warned you about different types of foods causing an interaction with the handful of sand he just sold you?

A license is the consumer's only assurance that the guy filling the prescription isn't a quack.

Would you rather buy from a pharmacist who has a state embossed license hanging from his wall, or one carved in a piece of driftwood by a broken beer bottle?

140 posted on 11/10/2007 10:15:25 AM PST by 4woodenboats (DefendOurMarines.com)
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