Keepers of the Lost Ark?[Ethiopia][Ark of the Covenant]

Smithsonian Magazine ^ | December 2007 | Paul Raffaele

[Aliska]

Then please forgive me that it struck me a little that way, re new ager; we do seem to be more or less on the same page as near as I can discern. I used to think about these things a lot more but am not in religious/theological mode now, have reached a plateau, want to keep my faith and understanding that I have left as unpolluted as possible, but I think I'm more tolerant of other POV's than I was for a time. We all want to be right because it costs us each individually to go out on a limb and exercise the faith we do have; most manifestations in our lives are subjective and experiential, and it is hard to convince others on the basis of our individual experiences, so I try not to annoy people unless they happen to be interested and some could be the evil one tricking me anyway. Sometimes I hear or read something someone else has experienced that strikes me as genuine.

Cicero brought out a good point about the fulfillment of Judaism. He is right. My only feeling about the Jews is that God intended there would be a remnant until the return of Christ (they wouldn't see it that way). I tended to think of Christianity as superseding Judaism, so I'll have to work on my exclusive attitude about that. I've always believed that God is still with the Jews, even though they have had some terrible calamaties, many due to Christians or quasi-Christians and it isn't just Christians who have caused them so much grief.

That is a good page about Shekinah, at one time I wanted to know more about it and there it all is, too much to absorb right now, but thank you for the link.

The ark could have been under the spot where Jesus was crucified, and that is a tantalizing mystery, but just another theory AFAIC unless we have more information. If it exists, surely it is in the safekeeping of those who will not reveal it to the world. I wouldn't consider myself worthy to be privy to such knowledge or gaze upon it.

Here's where I'm at right now, in worldly mode. For reading material, I bought 9 old Edward Rowe Snow's books. In one chapter of one of them, he tells of two different individuals having been swallowed by whales, the whales died and surfaced the same day, and the men were saved out of them if that much is to be believed. Here I had just decided that the Jonah story was allegorical; now I believe again that it could very well have been literal as I had always believed before.

[mdmathis6]

Some of the ancient murals/records found from Ninevhite ruins depict a man, bleached white, having been in a “fish” of some tpye coming from the sea to to predict terrible happenings to the unrepentant city. It was in an archeology magazine some years ago so I can’t find a link right now. The Jonah story apparently has truth to it!

[ZULU]

I’ve always thought of CHristianity as a Jewish Sect - like the Pharasees, Sadducees, Zealots, Sicarii, Essenes and other groups which arose in the early period of the Roman Occupation of Palestine.

Although I am a Christian myself, I view Jews as our theological forefathers and present theological brothers.
They are still waiting for the Messiah, we believe He came already and we are still waiting for His return.

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

Some would consider this semantics, given that a number of events are described which clearly relied on the Ark being present.

Because the Ark was the visible symbol of God's presence among His people, He often required that the Ark be prominently displayed during occasions where He miraculously delivered His people.

Nothing magic about the Ark in and of itself.

[Aliska]

That is a good way of looking at it. I don't take lightly that Jesus tells us no one can come to the Father but by him, but whomever is chosen to be saved is fine with me.

I don't view current Christianity as a Jewish sect, just built on it. The early Jewish Christians, probably, although we know how they were viewed by the Jews of the time. We have incorporated many traditions over the centuries that would be alien to Jews, and there is much disagreement over that which I would rather not get into. Lord knows, we certainly argue among ourselves. I have my views, but try not to get into religious arguments any more. It just causes ill will.

So anything I write or say is strictly trying to sort things out for myself and to learn.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Before leaving Addis Ababa for Aksum, I went to the offices of His Holiness Abuna Paulos, patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which has some 40 million adherents worldwide, to ask about Ethiopia's claim to have the ark of the covenant. Paulos holds a PhD in theology from Princeton University

Okay . . . you know this guy believes in evolution, the documentary hypothesis, and every current higher critical theory known to man, but he still chooses to maintain belief in his own national mythology???

All the people who are demanding that we rednecks consider Adam a mere allegory should discard their own myths first.

[SunkenCiv]

:’)

[Cicero]

It’s certainly possible. Archaeology has repeatedly confirmed various biblical claims, which “scientific” Bible interpreters had presumed to be false. The story of Noah appears to be told as a true story, and not a parable conveying a symbolic truth. Traditionally Jews and Christians have both taught that Noah was a real person.

Sometimes you have to distinguish between parts of the Bible that may be fictional and others that have to be historical, if one believes that there is any truth in the Bible at all.

The story of Moses in Exodus belongs to the latter category. It is central to Judaism, so it is impossible to write it off as just a story. Either it happened, or God’s covenant with Israel was a fiction. That is not necessarily true of other parts of the Bible. Job has traditionally been taken as a real person too, but the Book of Job could conceivably be a parabolic story, and that would not have the same impact on the central truths of Judaism or Christianity. But Moses had to be real and historical, the exodus from Egypt had to be real, the Ark of the Covenant that played such a central part in the Exodus, the conquest of the Land of Israel, and the history of the Temple had to be real, or the whole Bible would be a lie.

And all of Western civilization has been built on the truths and teachings of the Bible. So, the Ark of the Covenant was real. We don’t have proof that it still exists, or where it may be now if it does, but I find the Ethiopian connection the most credible explanation. The other stories, including the one about its being found in a tunnel under Jerusalem, just don’t have the same credibility, in my considered opinion.

Interesting. I’m not sure whether National Geographic really believes it might exist, but they saw an opportunity for investigating Ethiopia, looking at the customs there, and taking some of their excellent photographs.

[Cicero]

Certainly the present whereabouts of the Ark of Covenant are not a matter of faith, nor for that matter is its continued existence.

If it does still exist, as you say, it is better that it be kept in doubt, or as a secret. “Raiders of the Lost Ark” was not totally wrong when it suggested that power mad people like Hitler would want to possess it, although I doubt that God would let it be used by such a person. Still, it could easily touch off a power struggle to possess it.

A few of the early Christians thought that the Jews had been superseded, after the fall of the Temple and the dispersal. But history since then has suggested differently. And God repeatedly promised that His covenant would last forever. There is a New Covenant, which is Christianity, but the Old Covenant has not been abolished, according to traditional Christian teachings over the centuries, both Catholic and Protestant, and according to the words of the Bible.

[fso301]

Wasn’t there a movie about a WWII era attempt to steal this about 25 years ago?

[Aliska]

That would be right then, about the Old Covenant. It cannot be null and void or superseded by the new. A promise is a promise, and I believe it if God said it.

That brings us to the sticky question of just which Jews are covered by the Old Covenant now. At the present, my money is on the Orthodox, but I'm not sure about it at all. It is fuzzy to me about which dietary laws, feasts, ordinances must be followed today in order to "qualify". I suppose the various Jewish sects differ about it, too. I know the Conservative Jews, here at least, still follow the ritual handwashing ceremony after a Jewish burial. My friend's family, I know for fact not only did not keep kosher (although they patronized the kosher butcher when we had one here) and ate ham and bacon. I don't know if that would place them outside the fold or not. Of course, I would hope not. They did use a lot of kosher food, probably because they were brought up on it.

I like matzo :-). Sure is bland but good to munch on if it's nice and crispy.

[Cicero]

Yes, I like matzoh too. Have you ever heard the song Matzoh Number 5, which is based on the tune Mambo number 5? It’s a favorite of mine. It moves around the net, but I just googled it and I think you can find it here:

http://www.robrob8.com/song_parody/matzah_number_5.htm

As for what Jews need to do to keep the covenant, I guess that’s up to them. My sympathies are also with the Orthodox.

In the Book of Acts, Peter called the apostles and other disciples together for what was later called the Council of Jerusalem, and they determined that the Jewish ritual laws need no longer be followed by non-Jews who wanted to join the Church. In particular, circumcision was no longer required of them, a question that had been raised by Paul. A few other ritual rules were maintained: no sacrifices to idols, no eating meat with the blood still in it, the latter rule also later dropped by the Church.

[Teacher317]

Given enough motivation

I'll bake cookies and donate a few NFL tickets for THAT FReepathon!

[Flying Circus]

We know nothing of the sort, you merely assume it based on his educational pedigree. You need to first show where he says anything to reflect his belief in those critical theories before you have a leg to stand on.

I doubt he thinks that Adam was strictly allegorical as that would go against the teaching of the Church. The history of his civilization tells him that is the real ark so don’t expect him to give it up. Your Noahide beliefs, on the other hand, are rather peculiar for the redneck crowd as well as your vociferous rejection of Jesus.

[Zionist Conspirator]

We know nothing of the sort, you merely assume it based on his educational pedigree. You need to first show where he says anything to reflect his belief in those critical theories before you have a leg to stand on.

I doubt he thinks that Adam was strictly allegorical as that would go against the teaching of the Church. The history of his civilization tells him that is the real ark so don’t expect him to give it up. Your Noahide beliefs, on the other hand, are rather peculiar for the redneck crowd as well as your vociferous rejection of Jesus.

I assume it not only based on his educational background but on the fact that he's the patriarch of an ancient liturgical church. All the ancient liturgical churches ahve sold out, without exception. Do you honestly believe any Armenian church cleric actually believes that Noah's Ark once rested on Mt. Ararat? They don't even believe Noah existed!

The ancient ethnic "oriental" churches are the most liberal churches in the world. They have long since traded all theological content for ethnic identity, and they share the same peculiar allergy to Fundamentalist Protestantism that leads them to depend on liberal Protestant critical theories in order to discredit sola scriptura.

And for your information, most American Noachides are Southern rednecks. Unlike the ancient liturgical chr*stian churches, traditional insular Orthodox Judaism hasn't sold out.

[SunkenCiv]

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