Posted on 12/09/2007 12:49:26 PM PST by aomagrat
Edited on 12/09/2007 12:59:09 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.
I have to say though that if the shooter had been one of the “protected” I wonder if the media might have done some down playing of the numbers.
person on phone on CNN saying Murray heard voices
There is a callousness in our society that makes it acceptable for people to make horrid remarks about a tragedy like this. A mental health professional on FOX put it well, I thought. He said something on the lines of people are so hurt these days that they retreat into apathy to keep from being hurt again. The problem with that is that the apathy keeps them from being able to empathize, and if you can't empathize, you can make awful comments about a tragedy. Or, on another level, walk into a mall and kill indiscriminately.
Complete supposition, but missionaries sometimes have to undergo psychiatric evaluation. I have some relatives who are missionaries and they go through a full battery of tests. Perhaps he was disqualified on those grounds.
No wondering about it.
"It appears that the suspect had been kicked out of the program three years prior and during the past few weeks had sent different forms of hate mail to the program and-or its director," police said.
In a statement, the training center said health problems kept Murray from finishing the program. It did not elaborate. Murray did not complete the lecture phase or a field assignment as part of a 12-week program, Youth With a Mission said.
"The program directors felt that issues with his health made it inappropriate for him to" finish, it said.
person that knew him on CNN - I think his name is - Rick Werner - said he wasn’t kicked out like is being reported. He said that from his parents chose not to send again on missions because of issues like his mental state.
I guess it doesn’t really matter how he left - either way, he had issues
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the kid turns out to have been either schizophrenic or had depression with psychotic features, and that his parents had been trying for years to help him. It can be very hard to keep them on their meds.
Serious issues. Very sad state of affairs.
Wonder how his parents are dealing with this???
And if over 4,000 articles are posting the same thing, how long do you suggest the posters here wait before posting the ‘published’ article or the news therein? Should posters say that the AP, UPI, Reuters and witnesses just ‘might’ be wrong - so we should wait a few days, until the “REAL” facts come out?
Oh yes, they have plenty of those on there about other tragedies. It gets uglier than I think a moderated business forum might be. But not in this particular instance, you might be surprised. Just about every single comment was to express their utter disgust at their posting the photos (the set of 3, particularly since one victim's family lives in the area) and they were threatening to cancel their subscriptions (not that I think all of them were subscribers, probably just read the net version like I do).
Not necessarily. But you should take things with a grain of salt. Like the local news saying that YWAM was specifically about converting Muslims to Christianity. It doesn't take much for a line to picked up and repeated without any real basis in fact. With 10,000 members, it's more likely that 7,000 is the total who attend on a weekend. Probably over 4 services or more. The shooting occurred after the last service was over (I believe). So, a guesstimate of the number on campus would be in the hundreds, not thousands.
I totally understand what you are saying. I just find it a little surprising that a member would castigate others for repeating in a post what has been published in thousands of articles.
My son is with YWAM in Australia and another fella at his base said his brother had been in Denver with Matt Murray and that Matt had assaulted his brother. So that might have been one reason he was asked to leave. Another person posted recently that YWAM goes the extra mile with folks and it would have taken alot for them to have asked him to leave.
I just can’t imagine. plus to make it even worse they are high profile family. And their home address was published.
Interesting. That might explain why my father always printed everything in CAPS. He, too, was a COBOL programmer who started out using keypunch cards in the early days.
We have no clue what his relationship with his parents were or his human attachments. He may have mental health issues, and being home-schooled may have made it hard for him to relate to others in his age group who may have had more social experience, sounds like he was in an over-protected environment which may have boomeranged. It is unfair to speculate further, and I am not anti-homeschooling IF the children are provided with social outlets. I only personally know of one home-schooled person who married a home-schooled person.
Right now, I feel very sorry for the family of the shooter, but more may come out about that and I could change my mind. I'm sure glad I didn't go with my first gut reaction.
We all are entitled to our own beliefs. I do not disagree that God is a worker of miracles or that He can make the ill whole...when He chooses. However if you look at events on a scale of 1 to 1,000,000, you could probably say that God chose to intervene in less than .00001 of those cases.
I personally don't care for those odds and would rather promote concepts like self defense for ones self and let God take care of whatever His business may be.
Now, if I had a weapon and was able to use it, I'd be all for acting and praying at the same time. Which is what the lady did.
What the lady did is exactly what I would like to see happen more often..and I believe that God will best help those that help themselves.
As much as I'd like to believe it likely that God intervened into the perp's heart at the last seconds of his life I seriously doubt that it happened as he was trying to fire a jammed weapon.
Now, did God jam the weapon??
Maybe...I'd sure like to think so.
The point is really not that important, except as an example of how something that simple is gotten wrong. Look at what we have heard so far that, as far as I know, as a simple citizen out of town, may be right and may be wrong:
-- at first shooting, was wearing "skullcap"
-- at second shooting, was wearing a "tactical helmet."
-- Had "IEDs" ; or "grenades"; or "smoke grenades/bombs";
-- Had been a mission with the youth group
-- Male guards had guns but didn't use them;
-- Male guards didn't have guns.
I think we know the broad outline now, and it's basically a good story of heroism finally stopping an evil and screwed-up guy. But don't tell me we know all the relevant facts just because they have been in the media, or because they fit our perception of the best story.
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