Skip to comments.300 TURKISH TROOPS ENTER NORTHERN IRAQ OVERNIGHT -SENIOR IRAQI MILITARY SOURCE
Posted on 12/17/2007 11:46:27 PM PST by HAL9000
300 TURKISH TROOPS ENTER NORTHERN IRAQ OVERNIGHT -SENIOR IRAQI MILITARY SOURCE
Reuters - TURKISH TROOPS MOVE 2-3 KM INTO IRAQ, LIGHTLY ARMED, NO CLASHES
AP News Alert - KIRKUK, Iraq (AP) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice makes unannounced visit to Kirkuk, the city that Iraq’s Kurds call their Jerusalem.
Yikes! This isn’t good.
It looks like Turkey will get served this Christmas.
Maybe put a sarcasm tag on that one.
“Maybe put a sarcasm tag on that one.”
Why? Seemed reasonable enough.
OK... Now I’m sufficiently confused. Are these Kurds that are being targeted hostiles? Are they siding with Al Qaeda — hence the term separatists. Or are these the same Kurds that simply wished to develop their own country? Have these people proved to have been dangerous, and/or perpetrating attacks in Turkey?
Perhaps someone would be so kind as to fill me in as I’m obviously not as educated on this particular issue as I thought... Thanks in advance for any links, etc... so that I can increase my understanding.
I’m reading over the articles linked in this thread thus far now... Maybe after doing so this will become more clear to me.
Thank you for the link to the Washington Post article. It contained a LOT more information than the Reuters article, and helped me remember some stuff I had apparently forgotten.
I don’t however understand how this is possibly going to help the U.S. in the long-run to quell the political unrest in Iraq. If anything I think this will make our job that much harder...
Backing up US troops or joining the “insurgency” invasion?
The bombing of Turkey starts at 0700 hours...
Where did Condi hang the “no jews welcome” sign?
“The bombing of Turkey starts at 0700 hours...”
Err, no it doesn’t.
Obviously the sarcasm tag was implied but what are the specifics?
Friend or foe border crossings?
The Mexican army crossings into the US certainly are no friends and much of the “insurgency” is of foreign origin.
“Are these Kurds that are being targeted hostiles?”
They’re are a Communist terrorist group that has been conducting operations against Turkey since the 1970s.
“Have these people proved to have been dangerous, and/or perpetrating attacks in Turkey?”
“Since August 15, 1984, PKK violence has accounted for the deaths of more than 30,000 Turkish security forces and civilians, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in a statement August 14.
The U.S. government is calling upon the PKK to cease its terrorist acts and lay down its arms, McCormack said.”
Someone tell the Turks that the Persians are the next country over.
Yes. They're targeting the PKK, a group considered a Kurdish terrorist organization by the United States, Britain, and even the EU. Clashes with the PKK have killed tens of thousands of people in Turkey since the 1980s.
PKK has stepped up its terrorist activities after the Iraqi war, with hopes of taking over southeastern Turkey to create a Kurdish nation.
Many PKK members are based in Iraq, and have been illegaly crossing over the border into Turkey to committ terrorist acts against Turkish civilians and soldiers.
Liberty, I am totally lost on this issue so I understand what you mean.
JMO, but I bet these “terrorist” PPK members are also the ones that helped the US carry out operations in the north during the Invasion of Iraq. Bet they were instrumental in eliminating Iraqi troops along side the US forces.
Again, JMO, I bet it was the Kurdish who P.O.’d a few state department folks and GW when they decided they wanted to form their own government and claim the oil in the north as their own.
So our intelligence and that of the Turks is so great that they are only bombing the PKK bad Kurds while not affecting the good Kurds in the process.
Wasn’t it part of our reasons for sanctions against Saddam because he was killing the Kurds? Must have been the good ones because we are allowing the Turks to invade Iraq and eliminate the bad Kurds. Why did we not do it? Seems crazy to allow another country in.
Something just does not seem right. Once I read the articles UKTory you provided links to, I may have a better understanding of the matter at hand.
Done without any international process... from the same guys who tried to stop us and said us going there was not legal
how many times was this done before AP decided it was news worthy
Before 2003, Saddam used the Ansar al-Islam jihadists and al Qaeda encamped in northern Iraq to keep the PKK in line. Now they’re all dead and the PKK has had a free reign to kill Turks. This was a well-known risk during the run-up to the invasion.
Our little “friends” the Turks are trying to stop any stabilization in Iraq because they want to continue to surpress their own Kurdish minority and take over Kurdistan - or at least part of it.
Let’s see if the Kurdish civilians will resist the Islamofascist Turks invading Iraq.
The PKK are not our allies.
All Kurds are not the same.
Correct, but Turkey’s legitimate fight against PKK is only a pretext of destabilizing and ultimately subdueing ANY Kurdish self-ruling entity next door.
Turkey, Iraq and Iran all have a problem with a self ruling Kurdish entity.
So why can't we strike into Pakistan to get Al Qaeda members?
No, you would be wrong.
John Burnett reports one the recent surge of violence along the U.S.-Mexico border. In the past weeks, gunmen have fired on U.S. Border Patrol agents, Mexican drug traffickers have attacked Texas lawmen. . . .
Think of the drug smugglers as the Marxist PKK terrorists -- including a time in the future when 20,000 or so Americans have been killed by the drug smugglers trying to establish control over portions of the U.S. The 20,000 is the approximate number of Turkish civilian casualties caused by the PKK since the 1980s. The total number of deaths is greater owing to Turkish counterattacks.
What would we do? If you think what Turkey did is wrong then surely you'll argue that we should do nothing except let more Americans be murdered by the drug smugglers.
I advise everyone here to read the links posted. They really help illuminate the situation.
As has been posted before, the PKK is a brutal, terrorist, Marxist group of thugs, is not affiliated with the Kurdish government, is not a true defender of the Kurdish people, have actively killed tens of thousands of Turks, and are not to be called our allies. I have no qualms about an actual ally (however strained relations are now) killing few terrorists.
Appreciate your vast knowledge on the subject.
Thanks, will do so. Hopefully the article(s) will answer some of the lingering questions I and others may have.
‘you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours’
This is a Marxist PKK issue. As noted elsewhere we consider the PKK terrorists as do the European nations.
Even after the destruction of the Marxist PKK there is no guarantee that Kurdistan meddling in eastern Turkey won't one day lead to war. That's another matter.
...with a knife blade.
Maybe they just wanted to get some steaks at the local Sizzler.
Does Turkey have any problem with the Kurds in the eastern part of Turkey. Is there any armed resisitance to the Turk government?
Well. Would you rather have a full-scale war between Turkey and ALL of the Kurds? Or just some pinprick raids with a NATO ALLY -against- a COMMUNIST Kurdish seperatist group, which, if successful, would break off part of Northern Iraq and Turkey to create a COMMUNIST MUSLIM STATE?
As Bush has learned, and the DIms haven't. We have only bad or worse choices in the middle east, and we can't choose to ignore them.
“Lets see if the Kurdish civilians will resist the Islamofascist Turks invading Iraq.”
What crock. Who are all the lefties posting this garbage? America already told the Turks we would help them locate the PPK, Iraq already agreed to look the other way.
Despite what you read in the media, this is a waste of band width.
300 turks sitting on a dozen mountain tops looking out for invading PPK guerillas. BIG DEAL!
You hope the Kurds armed and supplied? YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHO THESE PEOPLE (the Kurdish PPK) ARE DO YOU?
The PKK is listed as a terrorist organization internationally by a number of states and organizations, including the USA, NATO and the EU.
Eric Rouleau in the November/December 2000 edition of ‘Foreign Affairs’ states:
According to the Turkish Ministry of Justice, in addition to the 35,000 people killed in military campaigns, 17,500 were assassinated between 1984, when the conflict began, and 1998. An additional 1,000 people were reportedly assassinated in the first nine months of 1999. According to the Turkish press, the authors of these crimes, none of whom have been arrested, belong to groups of mercenaries working either directly or indirectly for the security agencies.
Human Rights Watch has stated that:
Consequently, all economic, political, military, social and cultural organizations, institutions, formations — and those who serve in them — have become targets. The entire country has become a battlefield.
The PKK also promised to “liquidate” or “eliminate” political parties, “imperialist” cultural and educational institutions, legislative and representative bodies, and “all local collaborators and agents working for the Republic of Turkey in Kurdistan.”
It also notes that:
As Human Rights Watch has often reported and condemned, Turkish government forces have, in the course of the conflict with the PKK, also committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law, including torture, extrajudicial killings, and indiscriminate fire. We continue to demand that the Turkish government investigate and hold accountable those members of its security forces responsible for these violations. Nonetheless, under international law, the government abuses cannot under any circumstances be seen to justify or excuse those committed by Ocalan’s PKK.
Many who died were unarmed civilians, caught in the middle between the PKK and security forces, targeted for attacks by both sides.
According to Amnesty International, the PKK killed and tortured Kurdish peasants and its own members in the 1980s. A number of Kurds have been abducted and killed because they were suspected of being “collaborators” or “informers” and it was a common practice for the PKK to kill their whole families.
According to an article printed in the November 2002 issue of the International Socialist, monthly paper of the International Socialists, during the conflict (and still [as of 2002]), the Turkish army tortured, killed and disappeared civilians. In 1997, Amnesty International (AI) reported that, “’Disappearances’ and extrajudicial executions have emerged as new and disturbing patterns of human rights violations ...” by the Turkish state. According to an earlier (1996) report of AI, “in January 1996 the [Turkish] government announced that the PKK had massacred 11 men near the remote village of Güçlükonak. Seven of the victims were members of the local village guard force. Independent investigations suggested that the massacre was the work of the security forces”.
check this out-
Turkey’s Terror Problem Is Ours
By Michael Rubin
Wall Street Journal
December 18, 2007
It’s been nearly two months since the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) sparked an international crisis with a major attack inside Turkey, and more than six weeks since President Bush promised Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that Washington would aid Turkey’s fight against terrorism. Heady talk of intelligence sharing and cooperation followed and, indeed, may have been a factor in this weekend’s Turkish air strikes on PKK targets in Iraqi Kurdistan.
Yet at the same time the Bush administration — more precisely its increasingly assertive State Department — has embraced an ill-advised diplomatic strategy toward the PKK that will likely backfire on our long-standing NATO ally, and could serve to undermine what is left of President Bush’s “global war on terrorism.”
With 100,000 Turkish troops amassed alongside the Iraqi frontier, it is understandable that U.S. diplomats want to avert a military crisis. But, rather than take a zero-tolerance policy toward terrorism, the State Department is counseling Turkey to offer political concessions. On Dec. 13, for example, State Department Coordinator for Counterterrorism Dell Dailey said, “We have not looked at a military solution as the solution to the PKK. Our preference is a political solution,” both inside Iraqi Kurdistan and inside Turkey.
At some point in the near future the Muslim parastate of Turkey will disintegrate...