Was Barack Obama a Muslim?

NewsMax ^ | January 13, 2008

[processing please hold]

1. Was Barack Obama a Muslim?

The issue of Barack Obama's possible Muslim past has re-emerged with conflicting reports about the presidential candidate's childhood in Islamic Indonesia.

The controversy was initially touched off in early 2007 when several media outlets reported that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Islamic school, when he lived in Indonesia.

Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs quickly countered with a statement: "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian."

The reports about the radical madrasa turned out to be false. But in March 2007, Gibbs amended his previous statement, telling the Los Angeles Times: "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim," the key word being "practicing."

Obama, his Kansas-born mother and Muslim stepfather moved to Jakarta, Indonesia's capital, in 1967, and Obama lived there from ages 6 to 10.

The Times sent a reporter to Jakarta to investigate Obama's childhood years there, and published an article on March 16 that included these details:

* A close boyhood friend of Obama, Zulfin Adi, said Barack "was a Muslim. He went to the mosque." * Obama's first-grade teacher at a Catholic school, Israella Dharmawan, said: "Barry (Barack's nickname) was Muslim. He was registered as a Muslim because his father was Muslim."

* In the third grade, Obama transferred to a public school, where he was also registered as a Muslim. At the school, Muslim students attended weekly religion lessons about Islam.

* In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Koran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."

More recently, Middle East Forum director Daniel Pipes wrote on FrontPageMag.com that his research led him to conclude that "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian stepfather."

But on Jan. 2, the liberal organization Media Matters for America (MMfA) took issue with Pipes' report, criticized him for relying too heavily on the Times article, which it claimed was "disputed," in an effort to "revive Obama-Muslim falsehood."

Media Matters cited a March 25 article by Kim Baker in the Chicago Tribune that challenged several assertions in the Times story. Barker wrote that boyhood friend Adi "was not certain" about his statements regarding Obama's childhood and that he "only knew Obama for a few months."

The Media Matters Web posting stated: "Additionally, the Tribune reported that 'interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia.'"

Media Matters also said that "Pipes did not note that Obama's Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, has been described in the Tribune as 'much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim.'"

Pipes fired back with a FrontPageMag.com article on Jan. 7, titled "Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam."

Pipes asked if any of the information from the Chicago Tribune article refutes "my analysis, as MMfA contends. It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account — the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfin Adi as a source on Obama. But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account."

Pipes concludes: "Therefore, what MMfA calls the 'Obama-Muslim' falsehood' is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate."

And he adds: "All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the Untied States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world."

[Jeff Head]

I don't believe I ever said that radical Islam and "Muslims" were synonymous in my eyes. Those are words you are adding in.

I said if a Muslim nation, or nation in that area, adopted republican constitutional principles and wanted to be our partners and allies under such a system, that we could hold out an olive branch.

That's all.

I have also indicated, and stand by, my belief that if someone is raised in a fundamtnal islamic home where father and step father are fundamental in their beliefs of the same, as I believe Obama's were...then I believe that electing such an individual to the Presidency is a grave risk while at war with that very ideology. I maintain that belief.

[Constantine XIII]

Because people like that like to hang out at FR for at least 3 years longer than any of you noobs.

[houstonman58]

"I don’t believe that he is a Muslim. He attended a Catholic school for 2 of the 4 years he was in Indonesia,---"

Means nada. Hitler too went to Catholic school, until they threw him out and bannished him for various reasons. The fact is, we don't know whether or not Barak Hussein Obama has islam in his heart, and that question mark alone should be more than enough to make any American voter stay away from this guy. Also, if he was born a Muslim, then was a Catholic for a time, and is now a self-styed, free spirited "Christian" who attends one of those make-the-theology-up-as-you-go-along "churches", (a 'church' with an ominously proud Afro-centric bent I might add), then why should I believe that he has any real beliefs at all? Aren't there enough atheistic, pseudo "Christian" politicians in Washington already?

[Beckwith]

Here are some patently incorrect items from the Snopes link you provide:

...no evidence supports a claim that Obama is currently, or ever has been, a Muslim...

Obama's grandfather was a Muslim. Obama's father was a Muslim (and buried in Islamic rites), Obama's stepfather was a Muslim. Obama, by birth and blood is or was a Muslim. He is the only person in the world that knows what he is today and he dissimulates regularly on this matter.

In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Quran.  His teacher Tine Hahiyary said that she remembered that he had studied "menjaji" (recitation of the Quran)."  Classmate Rony Amiris described Obama as being a very devout Muslim, saying, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam."  Another classmate, Emirsyah Satar, now the CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, "He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a 'sarong'. 

...schools offered a few hours of religious instruction each week...

According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama's teachers and the principal from 1971 throuh 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school.  His teacher was named Maimunah and she lived in the Puncak area, the Cianjur Regency.

"I remembered that he had studied "mengaji" (recitation of the Quran)" Tine said.

Our guy in Jakarta writes: "The actual usage of the word 'mengaji' in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue.  "Mengagi" is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia.  To put it quite simply, 'mengaji classes' are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to.  To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes."

"The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet."

"As I've stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such."

...Obama never stated that he "was once a Muslim"...

Then why was he registered in TWO Jakarta schools as a Muslim?

...Obama communications director Robert Gibbs noted that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim"...

On March 14th, in a statement to The Times, the Obama campaign offered this statement to correct their previous statement, that was a bold-faced lie:

"Obama has never been a practicing Muslim. The statement added that as a child, Obama had spent time in the neighborhood's Islamic center."

This is a departure from the earlier statement made by the Obama campaign on January 24. "To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago.

In three months Barrack's campaign has gone from describing the U.S. presidential hopeful as never having been a Muslim and never having been raised as a Muslim to now having never having been a practicing Muslim.

What's with the semantics?  Statements from Obama's campaign appear to have evolved, to say the least.

So, TROLL - - Snopes is incorrect - - and I'm still waiting for you to find incorrect information in the Obama File.

[Non-Sequitur]

I don't believe I ever said that radical Islam and "Muslims" were synonymous in my eyes. Those are words you are adding in.

You said Obama should be opposed because he's allegedly a Muslim and we're at war with radical Islam. It isn't hard to make the connection.

I have also indicated, and stand by, my belief that if someone is raised in a fundamtnal islamic home where father and step father are fundamental in their beliefs of the same, as I believe Obama's were...then I believe that electing such an individual to the Presidency is a grave risk while at war with that very ideology. I maintain that belief.

Someone earlier supported the idea of amending the Constitution to exclude Muslims from 1st Amendment and Article VI protections. Would you agree with that?

[processing please hold]

I’m a noob? oooookkkkkaaaaayyyy

[Constantine XIII]

Oh, good grief. You think you proved a point by putting your post in bold font and making vague accusations that because he went to a religious school before he was 10 he’s an OMG EVIL SECRET TERRORIST?

I’m sure his atheist mama would be surprised.

Enjoy your fail, noob.

[Constantine XIII]

relatively speaking, of course. ;)

[Beckwith]

This is obviously a well coordinated Muslim campaign. The reason I say this is that it sounds like this email I got from CAIR's Ibrahim Cooper (piss be upon the traitorous bastard).

LOVE FOR JESUS CAN BRING CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS TOGETHER
By Ibrahim Hooper

"Behold! The angels said: 'O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Jesus Christ, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and in (the company of) those nearest to God.'"

Before searching for this quote in the New Testament, you might first ask your Muslim co-worker, friend or neighbor for a copy of the Quran, Islam's revealed text. The quote is from verse 45 of chapter 3 in the Quran.

It is well known, particularly in this holiday season, that Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. What is less well understood is that Muslims also love and revere Jesus as one of God's greatest messengers to mankind.

Other verses in the Quran, regarded by Muslims as the direct word of God, state that Jesus was strengthened with the "Holy Spirit" (2:87) and is a "sign for the whole world." (21:91) His virgin birth was confirmed when Mary is quoted as asking: "How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me?" (3:47)

The Quran shows Jesus speaking from the cradle and, with God's permission, curing lepers and the blind. (5:110) God also states in the Quran: "We gave (Jesus) the Gospel (Injeel) and put compassion and mercy into the hearts of his followers." (57:27)

As forces of hate in this country and worldwide try to pull Muslims and Christians apart, we are in desperate need of a unifying force that can bridge the widening gap of interfaith misunderstanding and mistrust. That force could be the message of love, peace and forgiveness taught by Jesus and accepted by followers of both faiths.

Christians and Muslims would do well to consider another verse in the Quran reaffirming God's eternal message of spiritual unity: "Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves.'" (2:136)

The Prophet Muhammad himself sought to erase any distinctions between the message he taught and that taught by Jesus, who he called God's "spirit and word." Prophet Muhammad said: "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

When Muslims mention the Prophet Muhammad, they always add the phrase "peace be upon him." Christians may be surprised to learn that the same phrase always follows a Muslim's mention of Jesus or that we believe Jesus will return to earth in the last days before the final judgment. Disrespect toward Jesus, as we have seen all too often in our society, is very offensive to Muslims.

Unfortunately, violent events and hate-filled rhetoric around the world provide ample opportunity for promoting religious hostility. And yes, Muslims and Christians do have some differing perspectives on Jesus' life and teachings. But his spiritual legacy offers an alternative opportunity for people of faith to recognize their shared religious heritage.

America's Muslim community stands ready to honor that legacy by building bridges of interfaith understanding and challenging those who would divide our nation along religious or ethnic lines.

We have more in common than we think.

Remember, Ibrahim Hooper's most famous comment.

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future, but I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

[Beckwith]

Needs to be said - - you’re an idiot!

[Constantine XIII]

Obviously. *rolls eyes*

[Constantine XIII]

Your mom is fat.

[george76]

Thanks.

Nice work.

[processing please hold]

Have a look at Najee Ali, obama’s pal. Quiet a radical character.

[processing please hold]

Your mama wears combat boots. *blows raspberry at ya* lol

[Constantine XIII]

:D

[Jeff Head]

This was my initial statement:

Obama's recent support of Isalmic radical candidates in Kenya is of great concern (2006). In addition, in the DNC he is significantly further left than Hillary...and Hillary would be a disaster for this nation.

Obama should not be considered in ANY event for President...but since he is a good orator, and looks young and fit...those who are already hooked on the marxist dole and kool aid will vote for him just like they did Kerry. We just have to get out the vote against him or Hillary like was done with Bush in 2004.

Just the same, regardless of all of the obvious and immediate practical reasons for him being defeated...if enough Americans are willing, in a time of war against radical Islam, to take the chance on electing an individual named Barack Hussein Obama as their President, then we deserve what we get as a people as a whole. Just like we would have had we elected someone named Isoroku Tojo-san or Adolf Kraut during World War II...but that would have never happened.

My intital issue with Barack in that post are his ties to radical Islam and candidates he supported. My principle concern with hima s a candidate, irrespective of that, is that he is a radical leftist.

However, since we are at war with radical Islam, considering anyone named Barack Hussein Obama, who has ties like he does to radical/fundamental islam is foolish IMHO, irrespective of its legality. People can and should oppose something from a coommon sense standpoint without it necessarily being something illegal.

I stand by that.

Any relgion that crosses the line from religion, morality, and spirituality and trying to support those through free choice in ouur republican form of governemtn, to trying to actively to subvert those republican principles and replace them with their own dogmatic-religious law, should not be considered a religion per sey. There is no need for an amendment to come to that conclusion, or to treat the organization accordingly...you just have to prove that is what they are doing. With radical islam, such proof is fairly straight forward IMHO.

[processing please hold]

;)

[ga medic]

I didn’t say that I thought it was a good idea to vote for him. I just think there are plenty of political issues to disagree with him on. I don’t see the benefit of all the speculation about his religion and the madrassa. It makes everyone here look like a bunch of conspiracy kooks. The guy is wrong on just about everything he believes in. Why is all the rest of this necessary?

[Candor7]

lol, if you say so.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I do say so. And so do a lot of others, my narrow minded Freeper Friend:

Fascism's Legacy: Liberalism

By Daniel Pipes

Tuesday, January 8, 2008

Liberal fascism sounds like an oxymoron – or a term for conservatives to insult liberals. Actually, it was coined by a socialist writer, none other than the respected and influential left-winger H.G. Wells, who in 1931 called on fellow progressives to become "liberal fascists" and "enlightened Nazis." Really.

His words, indeed, fit a much larger pattern of fusing socialism with fascism: Mussolini was a leading socialist figure who, during World War I, turned away from internationalism in favor of Italian nationalism and called the blend Fascism. Likewise, Hitler headed the National Socialist German Workers Party.

These facts jar because they contradict the political spectrum that has shaped our worldview since the late 1930s, which places communism at the far left, followed by socialism, liberalism in the center, conservatism, and then fascism on the far right. But this spectrum, Jonah Goldberg points out in his brilliant, profound, and original new book, Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning (Doubleday), reflects Stalin's use of fascist as an epithet to discredit anyone he wished – Trotsky, Churchill, Russian peasants – and distorts reality. Already in 1946, George Orwell noted that fascism had degenerated to signify "something not desirable."

To understand fascism in its full expression requires putting aside Stalin's misrepresentation of the term and also look beyond the Holocaust, and instead return to the period Goldberg terms the "fascist moment," roughly 1910-35. A statist ideology, fascism uses politics as the tool to transform society from atomized individuals into an organic whole. It does so by exalting the state over the individual, expert knowledge over democracy, enforced consensus over debate, and socialism over capitalism. It is totalitarian in Mussolini's original meaning of the term, of "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." Fascism's message boils down to "Enough talk, more action!" Its lasting appeal is getting things done.

In contrast, conservatism calls for limited government, individualism, democratic debate, and capitalism. Its appeal is liberty and leaving citizens alone.

Goldberg's triumph is establishing the kinship between communism, fascism, and liberalism. All derive from the same tradition that goes back to the Jacobins of the French Revolution. His revised political spectrum would focus on the role of the state and go from libertarianism to conservatism to fascism in its many guises – American, Italian, German, Russian, Chinese, Cuban, and so on.

As this listing suggests, fascism is flexible; different iterations differ in specifics but they share "emotional or instinctual impulses." Mussolini tweaked the socialist agenda to emphasize the state; Lenin made workers the vanguard party; Hitler added race. If the German version was militaristic, the American one (which Goldberg calls liberal fascism) is nearly pacifist. Goldberg quotes historian Richard Pipes on this point: "Bolshevism and Fascism were heresies of socialism." He proves this confluence in two ways.

Woodrow Wilson's Progressivism featured a "militaristic, fanatically nationalist, imperialist, racist" program, enabled by the exigencies of World War I.

Franklin D. Roosevelt's "fascist New Deal" built on and extended Wilson's government.

Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society established the modern welfare state, "the ultimate fruition" (so far) of this statist tradition.

The youthful New Left revolutionaries of the 1960s brought about "an Americanized updating" of the European Old Right.

Hillary Clinton hopes "to insert the state deep into family life," an essential step of the totalitarian project.

To sum up a near-century of history, if the American political system traditionally encouraged the pursuit of happiness, "more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered."

Second, Goldberg dissects American liberal programs – racial, economic, environmental, even the "cult of the organic" – and shows their affinities to those of Mussolini and Hitler.

If this summary sounds mind-numbingly implausible, read Liberal Fascism in full for its colorful quotes and convincing documentation. The author, hitherto known as a smart, sharp-elbowed polemicist, has proven himself a major political thinker.

Beyond offering a radically different way to understand modern politics, in which fascist is no more a slander than socialist, Goldberg's extraordinary book provides conservatives with the tools to reply to their liberal tormentors and eventually go on the offensive. If liberals can eternally raise the specter of Joseph McCarthy, conservatives can counter with that of Benito Mussolini.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DanielPipes/2008/01/08/fascisms_legacy_liberalism