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IT Question about Core 2 vs Dual Core Processors and BUS speeds

Posted on 02/02/2008 1:07:59 PM PST by pctech

I am in need of some advice about newer Dual Core and Core 2 technologies.

My older Pentium 4 systems (can you believe I'm calling that old?) seemed to be easier to work with when I had to match up processors to memory. You had processors that had to match up with system bus.

If a processor has a FSB of 800 MHz, you had memory that was clocked at 400 MHz. The DDR memory was multiplied by 2 and it worked.

If a processor has a FSB of 533 MHz, you had to have memory clocked at 333 MHz or 400 MHz.

If a processor has a FSB of 400 MHz had to have memory clocked at 266 MHz or 333 MHz.

Basically the memory had to support the FSB of the processor. You could use memory with a greater capacity for the lower end processors, but not visa versa.

Now I'm getting into dual cores and core 2 processors, things seemed to have changed. When I checked on the properties of my son's system that was built by someone else, the processor is Core 2 1.6 with a FSB of 800 MHz, but the system bus is only 533.

How can that be? I thought that had to match, or at the very least the system bus was faster than the CPU bus. Am I missing the boat or have motherboard and CPU bus speeds totally been designed?

Thanks for any help you guys and gals can lend me.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Technical
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1 posted on 02/02/2008 1:08:01 PM PST by pctech
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

ping for pc help


2 posted on 02/02/2008 1:10:07 PM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!)
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To: pctech

Ask these guys:

http://forum.pcmech.com/


3 posted on 02/02/2008 1:12:27 PM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: pctech

I’ve been out of this for years but at some level you’re dealing with asynchronous transfers and wait states to memory on the system board.


6 posted on 02/02/2008 1:14:12 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureā„¢)
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To: pctech
Pretty good writeup here

http://www.vsubhash.com/writeups/pchardware.asp

That I won't try to duplicate here...

7 posted on 02/02/2008 1:24:34 PM PST by CodeMasterPhilzar
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To: pctech
On the Intel side, the FSB is the system reference clock, "quad-pumped." Memory speed can vary depending on the chipset of the mainboard. Also it depends on whether it is DDR2 or DDR3 . They run at different speeds.

For example, the "Core 2" Q6600 runs at 2400 Mhz(266 x 9). The FSB is 1066 Mhz (266*4.) PC-6400 DDR2 runs at 400 Mhz, bi-directionally.

FSB is just the interface between the processor and the northbridge of the mainboard.
8 posted on 02/02/2008 1:41:09 PM PST by TxCopper
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To: pctech

OK, I happen to know a little bit about this subject.

The original Core-2 Duo processor, known as Conroe, has an FSB (front side bus) running at 1066 Mhz. Memory chips running synchronous with this is DDR-2 @533Mhz. I’ve seen opinions stating that the Core-2 works best with synchronous memory. However I’ve seen benchmarks where they tested 667Mhz and 800Mhz and in the real world, there’s very little difference in overall system performance. The reason is that these Core-2s have a huge L2 cache (4MB shared by both cores) so main memory is not as crucial as it is in other systems. Later Core-2s increased the FSB to 1333mhz where synchronous memory would be DDR-2 667Mhz.

The less expensive Core-2 systems,(apparently the one you have) has an FSB running at 800Mhz. So in this case, if you want memory synchronous with the FSB, you would get DDR-2 400, or DDR-2 800. The DDR-2 800 is more expensive but you would see a performance increase, probably 4-5 percent faster overall over the DDR-2 400.


9 posted on 02/02/2008 1:41:17 PM PST by Signalman
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To: pctech

This is my understanding of the technology. If anyone has corrections, please feel free to do so. This is knowledge garnered from 10 years in computer hardware engineering.

FSB (Front-Side Bus) and DIMM speed are mutually exclusive entities on a mobo. FSB is used in reference to processing power. The FSB is the data width of the channel between the processor and the rest of the board. It’s the “choke point,” of processing, if you will. The Xeon series of processors by Intel are beginning to get into quad-core technology pretty heavily with 1333+ MHz bus lanes, but the current 800 MHz buses in much of HP’s ProLiant line are pretty quick.

With the Intel Nehalem (sp?) processor line coming out in Q4 of this year, we’ll see the elimination of the FSB for what I’ve read to be a fully integrated bus system on the main board with 32 - 96 GT/s. (GigaTransfers). If this modality bears fruit, we’ll see a pretty significant change in processing in future systems.

As far as DIMM speed, that number is also representative of the data width available to the RAM modules for processing across the bus. I believe that the two speeds utilizing the same multiplier on the mainboard makes them more efficient, but I’m pretty sure there’s no reason for them to be relative to one another. It was just that way prior to newer technologies coming out.


10 posted on 02/02/2008 1:42:53 PM PST by rarestia ("One man with a gun can control 100 without one." - Lenin / Molwn Labe!)
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To: pctech

The buses can only run at the speed limit, like the rest of the traffic.


11 posted on 02/02/2008 1:44:50 PM PST by Revolting cat! (We all need someone we can bleed on...)
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To: rarestia
You are right about the death of Intel FSB. “Quick Path” is going to be in the new Nehalem & Sandy Creek x86 processors. It is going to be a lot like what AMD has used since the Athlon 64 was introduced in ‘02-’03. Quick Path will have a much greater bandwidth than AMD’s current HyperTransport 3.
12 posted on 02/02/2008 1:49:06 PM PST by TxCopper
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To: rarestia
With the Intel Nehalem (sp?) processor line coming out in Q4 of this year, we’ll see the elimination of the FSB for what I’ve read to be a fully integrated bus system on the main board with 32 - 96 GT/s. (GigaTransfers). If this modality bears fruit, we’ll see a pretty significant change in processing in future systems.

Open the pod bay doors, HAL.

13 posted on 02/02/2008 1:59:17 PM PST by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: raybbr; pctech

I’m running AMD so FSB doesn’t have much meaing to me...Buses run faster with the AM2+.....lets the Phenom Quad really perform....


14 posted on 02/02/2008 2:06:11 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: Revolting cat!

The buses can only run at the speed limit, like the rest of the traffic.

Unless there is a Nagin in New Awelins.


15 posted on 02/02/2008 2:32:26 PM PST by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: pctech

Or, you might want to try

here!http://www.crucial.com


16 posted on 02/02/2008 2:43:36 PM PST by buck61
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To: showme_the_Glory

“Unless there is a Nagin in New Awelins.”

Those buses were privately owned and contracted out by the school board. The comapany that owned them left them to flood, not Nagin. Nagin couldn’t use them unless he stole them.


17 posted on 02/02/2008 3:09:57 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood
Nagin couldn’t use them unless he stole them.

One kid did take one, loaded it with refugees, drove it to Texas, and was a hero for doing the right thing.

18 posted on 02/02/2008 4:54:17 PM PST by BerryDingle (With friends like the media, who needs enemas ?)
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To: pctech; rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

19 posted on 02/02/2008 5:16:21 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Bobkk47
What you say makes sense.

However, I'm going to be getting a 3.0 GHz dual core, not a Core 2, for this system, at least for the time being. Since there are many programs that still don't work on a 64-bit system (Nero problems big time), I will have it dual-booted between XP 32-bit and XP 64-bit.

This way, if he has to use the 32-bit boot up he won't loose much as much in the way of processing speed is if he has to run on a 1.6 GHz core 2 on a 32-bit OS.

I look forward to the day when everything will work on a 64-bit OS but right now they don't.

And thanks!

20 posted on 02/02/2008 5:18:43 PM PST by pctech
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