eBayer invites buyers to rip him off

The Register ^ | 11 February 2008 | Lester Haines

[ShadowAce]

Here's an eBay auction with a difference: an apparently innocent-looking punt of a Sony VAIO VGN-NR21J/S laptop:

There then follows the usual item description, but what makes this particular sale a little more interesting is the vendor's candid purchasing advice for users of the world's favourite tat bazaar:

DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN STEAL THIS LAPTOP OFF ME:

PAYPAL: Paypal is currently ebays preferred method of stealing high value electrical items off sellers. There are a number of various ways you can use to steal this laptop using paypal.

1: A Fake “Item Not Received” (I.N.R) Claim – All you simply have to do here is purchase my item using an unverified paypal account. Then when you receive the laptop, simply claim that you didn’t receive it at your registered (credit card) and paypal will give you all your money back !

2: A Fake “Item Significantly Not As Described” (S.N.A.D) This is a great way to steal items off sellers. Simply start a dispute after you get the laptop making up some lie about the item being damaged etc – You could use Photoshop to make up fake pictures of damage. Paypal will ask you to send the item back to me, but don’t bother – they never enforce that on buyers and after a short wait you will get all your money back and you will still have the laptop.

3: A fake “Unauthorised Use” Claim – This is a super way of stealing items on ebay and is widely used. Simply claim that someone hijacked your account (paypal & ebay) and that you didn’t order the laptop. Then in conjunction with a fake I.N.R claim you can simply steal the laptop and of course, get your money back.

4: A Stolen Credit card – Of course, ebay make no real attempt to vet any of its buyers, so hey, just register a new ebay account using fake ID information and link it to a paypal account set up with a stolen credit card – and hey presto – A free laptop.

WESTERN UNION

Although officially banned on ebay, fake western union payments are the preferred way for Nigerian Scammers to steal high value electrical items. Simply email me (using pigeon English) telling me that you would like to buy this item using Western Union – Tell me that you would be happy to pay over the odds for the laptop and that it is a present for your mother in law. Then send me a fake western union payment notification and I send you the laptop – Perfect. This method of stealing items off sellers is very widely used on ebay and of course, as ebay do not properly verify buyers its easy to do. Make sure you use Pigeon English as I am really really stupid and it’s bound to fool me.

MUGGING

If you are a traditionalist like me you may prefer a good old mugging. Simply offer to meet me on some dodgy housing estate somewhere and have a load of you mates hiding behind a hedge with a few iron bars. Again, offer to pay me over the odds as there is nothing better than using a sellers greed to bait them into a scam. I would be grateful if you could avoid killing me as this will cause bad publicity for ebay which would be terrible.

GENUINE BUYERS

In the unlikely event that you are actually a genuine buyer then you really should be shopping in a real shop and not this scammers paradise. However this laptop does really exist and is really for sale. You can email me or skype me with suggestions on how we may actually transact this item to both our satisfaction – with both our safety in mind. Don’t even think of buying it using paypal. I’ve only listed it as accepted because ebay run a protection racket that means I have to accept it. If you do pay by paypal I will simply refund your payment and give you a nice new shiny NEG.

FEEDBACK BLACKMAIL

Of course you will no doubt be aware that from May onwards you will be able to blackmail sellers into giving you free P&P / discounts etc. You will be able to give them neg feedback and they will not be able to give you any.. I regret to advise you that because this rule does not come in until May this option of scamming me is not open to you yet.

AUCTION WRECKING

I would grateful if some sad failed traffic warden could report this auction for two reasons

1: Ebay will see this listing and will hopefully close my account, saving me a 180 days wait to do it myself.

2: You will save me listing fees, making this a free advert.

Happy Bidding!

Splendid. On 7 Feb, the seller ("class-it") added:

**** STOP PRESS **** PEOPLE THERE IS NO POINT BIDDING ON THIS ITEM. IT WILL SURELY BE REMOVED VERY SOON BY EBAY. YOU CAN FIND THE EXACT SAME ITEM AND MY DETAILS ON TAZBAR (GOOGLE IT).

ANYWAY, IM OFF OUT NOW, IF THIS IS GONE BY THE TIME I GET BACK – HOPE YOU ALL ENJOYED IT AND EBAY, THERE IS A SERIOUS SIDE TO THIS. SOONER OR LATER THE TRICKLE OF THOSE OF US LEAVING WILL TURN INTO A FLOOD. READ THE LETTER YOUR FOUNDER WROTE AND THEN TRY AND FOLLOW AT LEAST SOME OF IT!

Well, whether eBay does indeed sit up and take notice remains to be seen, although we're sure its first priority will be to pull this magnificent protest... ®

Bootnote

What eBay founder's letter is that, we hear you cry? It's this one, and it'll bring a tear to the eye, make no mistake.

Oh yes, in response to those of you who were wondering, the Sony had attracted no bids when the auction closed.

[teledude]

any idea what a 64 strat and deluxe reverb(same year)amp might be worth?"

Oh those don't bring much. You should PM me and I'll help you out and take those off your hands. JUST KIDDING!

Not sure off the top of my head, but lets just say...a lot!

[SlapHappyPappy]

They didn’t offer insurance. They failed to provide any tracking information, claiming they had forgotten to ship it in a trackable manner. They also had not one, but two, supposedly disappear. They also had another 40 or so confirmed reports of the same mistake.

If they choose to ship something without tracking and insurance, then I have no sympathy if it doesn’t arrive. But anyone looking at my case and thinking they were honest is delusional.

[Bender2]

When the seller uses Deliver Confirmation and insurance, this will not work. That is why I do that for most orders I sell.

BTW I have over 3,000 positive feedback comments on eBay to 6 negatives from years ago.

[4yearlurker]

I’ve been selling on Ebay for over four years. I never accepted Paypal as a payment. I do buy on Ebay with a Paypal account. Paypal is great for the buyer but really sucks for the seller. Lots of baseball card,comic book,etc. dealers get ripped off. The tongue in check auction page for the laptop is really right on the money. Come May I’m closing my account and moving on.

[bamahead]

ping

[John123]

If they choose to ship something without tracking and insurance, then I have no sympathy if it doesn’t arrive.

Ah! Now that absolutely makes sense to me...

Sounds like that seller got sloppy and didn't cross the t's and dot the i's. It's their fault and they should use the experience to tighten up their shipping procedures... :)

[SlapHappyPappy]

They won’t have the chance at eBay. They’re banned.

[Still Thinking]

I love how Paypal pats themselves on the back for giving me a way to pay for stuff without “disclosing my financial information”. So far I haven’t figured out how to do it. They always seem to want my credit card info, bank info, and physical address. Infuriatingly arrogant.

[Wolfie]

Oh, it’s true. And feedback extortion is very real, even now when a seller can leave feedback too. Just imagine when the new rules go into effect and the buyers have nothing to fear. And to make matters worse, they’re going to start expiring seller’s feedback after 12 months, so you won’t even have a good record to point to if a buyer starts scamming you with negative feedback.

[pandoraou812]

Well I am out of Ebay then. I will sell at a local auction or flea market & save the shipping etc. I guess Ebay stock needs to go down even more before they find out how bad it is going to be when the sellers leave. I don’t like that lady who is in charge of everything either. I made money off Ebay but now this is just too much for me.

[DeLaine]

I bet that made you blue. Oh wait....

LOL

[papasmurf]

LOL. Good one.

[DeLaine]

I thought you’d like that one.

[Wolfie]

It just keeps getting worse. eBay will now REQUIRE that sellers use PayPal, and:

“When payment is made, it will appear as “completed” in the seller’s PayPal account so they will know to ship, but the balance will be reflected as “pending”. The funds will be released when one of the following occurs:

1) The buyer leaves positive feedback
2) 3 days after confirmed item delivery or
3) 21 days without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on that transaction.”

[pandoraou812]

You are correct! here is the answer I got from eBay

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to know more about the new feedback system.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you. I will be happy to assist you with your concern.

I understand from your email that you are concerned regarding your buyers being able to leave you a negative feedback, but you not getting the same option.

As per the current system, many buyers consider not to leave honest Feedback as they fear retaliation from the sellers if they leave a negative. This makes it hard for buyers to distinguish between sellers while making bidding or buying decisions.

Also, this does not reflect the true picture of our sellers. Many of non-performing sellers are rated by the buyers at the same seller level as that of honest sellers. As per our experience, this has actually not helped our buyers in distinguishing non-performing sellers from the actual honest sellers like you. Also, in addition when buyers receive negative Feedback, they reduce their activity in the marketplace, which in-turn harms all sellers.

Since buyers take the primary risk in a transaction (sending money to a stranger), the goal of the Feedback system should be to enable them to accurately assess seller performance. This facilitates safe and satisfactory trading. I am sure that as an honest seller, you will also agree with us that buyer's should be able to rate you exactly as per their experience. The threat of receiving retaliatory negative Feedback from sellers, prevents buyers from leaving honest feedback about sellers, undermining the accuracy and value of the Feedback system.

Also, please be assured that if a buyer uses the threat of negative Feedback to demand more than what was promised in the item description (e.g. wants overnight delivery but only paid for standard delivery) the seller should immediately report the buyer to eBay. If there is clear evidence of extortion eBay will take action typically on a first offense. If a buyer shows a pattern of malicious behaviour (multiple seller reports such as UPI), eBay will most likely suspend the buyer.

If we suspend the buyer, any negative or neutral Feedback the buyers left for sellers will be removed. Sellers should only file these complaints when the buyer asks for more than what is promised in the listing. Please be noted that eBay will never encourage sellers in filing a false claim.

If your buyer has failed to pay for an item, you should file an Unpaid Item (UPI) claim. If the buyer fails to respond to the UPI report, then any negative or neutral Feedback they have left will be removed. If the buyer shows a pattern of such behavior and is suspended for UPI, any negative or neutral Feedback they left will be removed. Sellers should only file an Unpaid Item claim when the buyer did not pay.

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.

Sincerely, Lily M. eBay Customer Support

Lily & eBay can take a hike...I am out of there. Thank you for your info & help. Pandora _____________________________________________

[NavyCanDo]

I have had won close to 1000 items on Ebay and only had 1 time an item did not arrive and a couple of times that the item was not what was expected. None of those cases were the items expensive so I pretty much shrugged it off for experience and was more careful to check buyer feedback.

Except for one time: The one bad experience was when I gave Neutral feedback because of a very poor quality copy of a classic movie I purchased that was so bad it was unwatchable. The seller in revenge gave me negative feedback and in the comments said I was part of a Internet crime cartel and some even nastier comments. This was his MO when reviewing other feedback he gave to unhappy buyers. There was nothing I could do. That 1 and only negative comment is still there.

[I.D.E.A]

I am sitting here typing this post with an adorable and *signed* “Phil Kubicki 2-’82” 6 string electric guitar sitting on my lap. It’s purported to be one of Kubicki’s private use guitars before it came into my families possession (by the way of an art trade). Any idea on the value? Thanks!!

[teledude]

Sorry, I really have no way of placing a value on something like that. Sounds like a nice instrument though.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

An absolutely original ‘64 Strat could be worth in the $22K-30K range, and a ‘64 Deluxe Reverb about $4K. Condition, degree of originality right down to the solder joints, is critical.

I sold a ‘57 Strat which was factory gold plated but virtually EVERY aspect of the guitar was messed with, for $7300. I also sold a ‘61 Strat NECK for $4300 and the pickup assembly for $4200.