Posted on 02/14/2008 2:49:59 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
A massive switch from coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power plants to solar power plants could supply 69 percent of the U.S.’s electricity and 35 percent of its total energy by 2050.
A vast area of photovoltaic cells would have to be erected in the Southwest. Excess daytime energy would be stored as compressed air in underground caverns to be tapped during nighttime hours.
Large solar concentrator power plants would be built as well.
A new direct-current power transmission backbone would deliver solar electricity across the country.
But $420 billion in subsidies from 2011 to 2050 would be required to fund the infrastructure and make it cost-competitive.
(Excerpt) Read more at sciam.com ...
At the moment a substantial percentage of Sunlight's heat value is reflected back into space.
Could be possible heat retention could be increased way beyond that brought about by CO2 and water vapor.
The cloud banks will, of course, render the entire solar cell array worthless for 3 or 4 months a year.
“Yea, I thought that DC had a very limited transmission distance. Edison believed that each neighborhood would have a DC power station.”
“thought DC was a very inefficient way to transfer energy?”
Well I might as well answer two post at once.
High voltage power lines with A/C are less efficient than DC lines if the voltage is close to the same. With A/C the wave form is near 0 volts for a fairly large amount of the time. This means the resistance of the wire will burn up almost all the power. When the wave form is near its peak, the voltage is vary high and the resistance will not have as much loss. There are capacitive losses that A/C has that DC does not.
They have planed million volt DC lines but I have don’t know if they were built.
Power transfers over long distances can be done with DC but the voltage must be vary high. In the old days they had no way to cheaply convert vary high voltage DC to A/C. Million volts DC line should be more efficient but you have to take into account the conversion losses from DC to A/C.
Obviously all these solutions that don’t make the rich lawyers still richer are taboo. Geothermal, super insulation, wood stoves for heating, etc...allow the homeowner to be more or less self sufficient, the LAST thing the trial lawyers want to hear. Their objective in this whole energy hoopla is to milk you for all they can(.5T for a vast solar farm), then keep you as dependent on their system as possible, still more cash cow milking.
Perhaps it would be painful but useful for al queda to bring down our vulnerable electrical grid/towers. THAT would get everyone’s attention : self sufficiency or die...
Large areas in California, Nevada and Arizona could also be "tapped"...
Drove thru Quartzite many times between Yuma and Parker. That’s why I moved to AZ, to get in on the ground floor of this coming solar energy revolution. Turned out to be a dud. How much per KW does this guy pay w/his solar setup? And look, not only do you have to pay for the panels(full electrical mini-system in fact)you have constant maintenance : dust, rain streaks, hail damage, sand storms, long term UVB/UVC damage, secondary comic ray showers. Sure, they work for awhile but this is the real world we live in, not the inside of a CA solar lab.
The basic failing of solar though is AREA vs VOLUME. A hydroelectric dam has a lot of catchment area, many square miles worth, with a tiny bone-in-the-throat volumetric concrete dam with still smaller power cables emerging therefrom. Covering 10,000 to 100,000 sq miles w/solar cells is equivalent to covering the entire(natural slopes)catchment area of the dam. Oil wells, coal mines, fission nuclear are all concentrated volumetric energy sources, not spread out over a vast area like corn for ethanol, or solar.
Thus we should be very leery of this beat-the-drum/rattle-the-tamborine $.5T solar proposal. The only way to prove solar is competitive in the energy market and that they can live in the real world, is house unit by house unit. And too, a major catastophe(nuclear war, ozone layer loss over the northern hemisphere, yellowstone super volcano blows)means the sun won’t be shining anyway.
Then it sounds like your rooftop wouldn’t be a good candidate site for a solar install. Looks like you’ll have to wait for the neighborhood fission reactor.
The idea of half a trillion bucks from Uncle Sam is just silly. Think “Big Dig” X 10.
I do think solar has it’s place in the western states if the cost of panels comes way down.
Nanosolar claims their panels will be 1/10 the cost of the old SI based panels and from reading some of their patents it looks like the efficiently will be close to 20%
If the panel life was 15 years or so then the cost per KWH might be around .05 making it lower cost than the grid, unless the government helps, then it will cost at least three times more.
We don’t need the Government fixing any more things. Read up at who formed Nanosolar and it is almost 100% free capital.
In a way the Government has already subsidized the alt energy market by brainwashing all the students in the Government schools about global warming.
There are millions of young adults willing to give up any of their freedoms to help to save the earth.
FAIL!
High voltage is required for long distance transmission in order to avoid loss.
You can't downconvert the voltage via transformer if it's DC. That's why we use AC.
Somebody thought this up in the shower one morning, and thought it would be a swell plan. Well, it's not. It's a remarkably stupid plan. There are lots of other, easier ways to store energy than by trying to build vast, air-tight underground caves, and then losing most of the stored energy through inefficiencies inherent in recovering the energy.
That's definitely a way to go ... you could at least power an air conditioner during the day, and that would take care of the peak power problems during heat waves.
Think of it this way DC is like water flowing in a pipe in just one direction. AC actually reverses the direction of that flow 120 times a second. There is a certain amount of energy required to do that and it is measured as Kilo Volt Amps Reactive(KVAR’s) or by it’s other name Imaginary Power.
Attempting the same energy transmission with high voltage AC has higher losses, due to the energy required to make and reverse the electromagnetic field 60 times every second.
You are correct in saying “You can’t downconvert the voltage via transformer if it’s DC.”
BUT, we can electronically convert high voltage DC to high voltage AC, then step that AC voltage down at the user end.
The best combination of efficiencies is HVDC long distance transmission, and AC local distribution.
Where generation can be located near the end users the system is purely AC.
Which is why I have a PV array on my roof...
Would you tell us/me more about that?
I’ve just started thinking about it, haven’t gone too far with it yet, or even looked at any pricing.
Thanks.
Not much to tell, California offered a rebate plan at a time when I had a little extra money, so I had it installed.
It’s a simple grid connected system, no batteries. Set me back about $10K out of pocket, way back when. The electrical portion of my PG&E bill is usually around $5/month. Given what my neighbors are paying I figure I’m just about at the break even point.
I have a small array because under California law, any “excess” power I generate is a GIFT to PG&E.
When I can sell back power, even if it’s only at low wholesale rates, I’ll consider tripling my generation, as my inverter can handle more panels.
What...size are the panels, how many panels do you have, how many kw does your setup produce, how many sq ft is your house, etc???
Do you know anyone who sells/installs off grid systems, besides custom designed systems?
Thanks again. :)
My first thought and your post #2.
I have a 1000 sqft 1906 vintage house, 800W worth of panels on a 3KW inverter.
I got mine from a local installer, MC Solar, don’t know who would install in your area (although you’re not the first Jawjun to ask me)...
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