Gun laws stronger, but not foolproof ("he had stopped taking prescription medicines for anxiety.")

Chicago Tribune ^ | February 17, 2008 | Jeff Coen and E.A. Torriero

[neverdem]

Everyone here seems to think the drugs cause this. He quit taking his drugs and his behavior deteriorated.

The link in comment# 1 is to PubMed. SSRIs can cause serotonin syndrome when starting therapy or the dose is increased. They also can cause a withdrawal syndrome. One comment stated that the NIU killer was taking Prozac. Prozac has the longest half-life of all the SSRIs.

Making Sense of the Great Suicide Debate

There are a bunch of interesting links on that thread. The last link in comment# 6 is to "The Serotonin Syndrome." It's a pretty good review article.

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

David Healy used to be a shill for SSRIs and gave expert testimony for their manufacturers in court. Now Dr Healy has finally seen the light.

Antidepressants are all the rage but have a dark side

Rosie Meysenburg of Dallas and Sara Bostock of California met at a public hearing on SSRIs sponsored by the Food and Drug Administration. Both had strong reservations about the safety of SSRIs. Together, they created a Web site, SSRIstories.com, which catalogs more than 2,000 news stories detailing violent acts -- murders, suicides, school shootings -- by individuals taking SSRIs.

[easternsky]

I have a buddy in Illinois state prison. He was suffering from extreme PTSD, flipped out killed wife and could not use the PTSD for defense in that state.

[therut]

I grew up in a very samll town ( a few hundred people) everyone knew everyone. There was the one “crazy” guy that all towns have. Always walking evey where in and out of the State Mental Hospital. I talked to him many times in passing as did everyone else. Heck he grew up there. One of the time he quit his meds (one time of many) he got in a fight with his mother. The local policeman came over to talk to him(we only had one the retired minister). Set down in a chair and the guy comes into the room where the cop and mother is and blows the guy away with a shot gun. The one time too many that he stopped his meds. This time he is in prision for life. The laws will not keep mental patients hospitalized for life. The go in and out and sometimes it just happens. Blame the ACLU. This protection and living in the community stuff started in the 1980’s and the mental hospitals were emptied. You can not keep them hospitalized . His family had begged for year for him to stay hospitalized but NO.

[Postman]

I agree on the medication but I have to stick up for the great PRNJ...WE have the most restrictive gun laws outside of NYC because we also have the largest number of stupid, venal, corrupt political A..holes (R & D) in the nation and the largest number of stupid and venal voters in the tri state area who, while constantly complaining, reliably vote to keep the political A...holes (R & D) in office.

It’s sort of like watching flesh eating bacteria at work.

[SkyDancer]

Some of my dad’s Vietnam friends have PTSD so I know what you mean - some state laws are so screwy. Example is one southern state jailed a guy for two years for having a narcotic drug in his possession. He had a legal prescription for it, his doctor attested to it but the idiot prosecutor went for the jail time. Not sure why the jury voted in his favor either ....

[SkyDancer]

Some of my dad’s Vietnam friends have PTSD so I know what you mean - some state laws are so screwy. Example is one southern state jailed a guy for two years for having a narcotic drug in his possession. He had a legal prescription for it, his doctor attested to it but the idiot prosecutor went for the jail time. Not sure why the jury voted in his favor either ....

[WOBBLY BOB]

most of these mass murders are linked to prescription meds.

the only one I don’t think that was (IIRC) the Amish school shootings.

http://drugawareness.org/

[CDHart]

You are correct - God help us all, as we will need it.

Carolyn

[The KG9 Kid]

I blame the cuckoo pills.

[MD_Willington_1976]

You are correct...

[baa39]

Oh my gosh, thank you, very interesting link! It looks like mostly SSRI’s are the problem with violence (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc.)

I know people, co-workers, my hairdresser, a relative, and others who seem truly helped by these medicines, but with the real dangers too, doctors and patients need to be more aware of indicators, warning signs and such. It’s a problem.

[WOBBLY BOB]

Going off them is often worse than not ever starting them at all.

[Texas Mom]

Any one hear what drugs he was taking?

That's the problem. He wasn't taking them.

Everyone who is on antidepressants need to taper off slowly. When you just stop taking them it can cause problems.

Most of these cases the person just stopped taking their meds on their own.

I was on 50 mil of Paxil a few years ago. The doctor cut me back to 25 mil then 12.

Some of these people probably were on higher doses than I was but no one should just stop taking them on their own.

Even Andrea Yates new doctor took her off all her meds the week before she killed her children.

I always thought he should have been held to some time of responsibility to what happened to those babies.

[baa39]

I agree with you about Andrea’s doctor, he’s at least partly responsible for what happened. From everything I’ve read on this and talking with people I know who are psychologists and psychiatrists, she was probably experiencing post-partum psychosis (not depression). That condition is rare, but NOT rare in people with manic-depressive illness (who are also rare themselves, only 1 percent of population, as opposed to up to 20 percent who experience depression). She may have had Bipolar I, and not been properly diagnosed by her doctor. Regardless of what illness she suffered, NO doctor should take a patient off the heavy sort of meds she was on, without daily check-in calls to monitor their moods and perception of reality. At the least it seems like malpractice to me.

[neverdem]

Even Andrea Yates new doctor took her off all her meds the week before she killed her children.

According to a medical journal, the NEJM, a couple of years ago 85 percent of docs are unaware of the serotonin syndrome that can be caused by SSRI drugs like Prozac. Probably fewer are aware of SSRI discontinuation syndrome.

[SkyPilot]

You all mark my words:

The Democrats and Liberals want to take gun rights away from anyone with any perceived "mental" problem.

The label sounds reasonable (at first), and this is why the gun grabbers think they can sell it to the public.

The Democrats will still control Congress next year - that is a 90% probability according to most pundits.

If Hillary/Obama gets elected - (which they probably will); then there will be no stopping this.

Again, my prediction from my own reading of news accounts and from talking to friends of mine who used to (or still work) in DC:

- Anyone who ever has been prescribed any anti-anxiety medication, been treated for depression, or has been diagnosed with certain mental conditions will have their right to own a gun or ammunition taken away. To get it back, they will be allowed to "petition" their local cops or courts

- Anyone who has gone for any mental health counseling or diagnosis will have their name entered into a special database to screen for gun purchases

- Any veteran who has been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (even mild or in the past) will have their right to own weapons or ammunition taken away or they will have to apply for special permits and appeals. If they choose not to do so, they may be subject to court ordered searches of their homes. If they refuse, their benefits will be stopped.

- Any recovering drug addict or alcoholic will need special permission from a doctor and/or counselor in order to own or possess a firearm

- Anyone who was ever ordered by any legal body (even in a college or university) to undergo "anger management" will have their gun and ammunition rights restricted

- Anyone ever even accused of "domestic violence" will lose their gun rights - and try to clear your name on this one.

Think it won't happen? You are not paying attention. It will be labeled "Common Sense" gun legislation and the MSM will applaud and use their full propaganda means to promote it.

The tragic case at Virginia Tech last year was the opening. It makes no difference that the real fault for tragedies like that one fall at the feet of Liberals who want to give more "rights" of patients to walk out of hospitals and refuse to take their medication (see the latest CNN special on this).

The gun grabbers will seize on every tragedy to exploit weapons ownership - and believe me, there will be another tragedy.

[neverdem]

All the pundits are predicting a disaster for the GOP in November. IMHO, they're not taking D.C. v. Heller and the Second Amendment into consideration. The grabbers will be in a frenzy, unable to stifle themselves.

Obama and Gun Control

CLINTON WANTS A GUN SUMMIT

New York Anti-Gun Legislation Still Pending

Promises breached (The Department Of Justice's weasel brief in D.C. v. Heller)

Hillary and Obama: It's About to Get Real Ugly

The word on the street is that the Obama campaign and New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg have already met and devised an incredible plan if Clinton wins the nominee. Mayor Bloomberg would give nearly $1 billion to Obama's campaign after which Obama would bolt from the Democratic Party and run as an Independent candidate with king-maker Bloomberg as his running mate.

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!