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KILLER OR HERO? LET'S WAIT FOR FACTS BEFORE WE PASS JUDGEMENT
The Virginian-Pilot/ Pilot Online ^ | February 26, 2008 | Kerry Dougherty

Posted on 02/26/2008 11:06:45 AM PST by brwnsuga

RYAN FREDERICK is no hero, no matter what they're saying about him on the Internet.

He's the 28-year-old Chesapeake man being held in the Jan. 17 shooting death of Detective Jarrod Shivers.

Shivers, 34, was executing a drug search warrant at Frederick's residence the night he was killed. According to police, the eight-year police veteran was hit in the arm and chest by a shot fired from inside the house.

In a jailhouse interview, Frederick said he was in bed when the police came to his door about 8:30 p.m. Awakened by his barking dogs, Frederick said, he thought his house was being invaded. He didn't know the police were the cause of the commotion, he said.

Even so, it's troubling that a man charged with first-degree murder - for allegedly killing a cop, no less - has generated an ardent fan club. If you Google "Ryan Frederick" and "Jarrod Shivers," you'll get more than 1,000 hits and an eye-opening lesson in wild Internet rumor-mongering and misplaced hero worship.

From his jail cell, Frederick has somehow morphed from an accused cop killer into an innocent victim.

Supporters of Frederick staged a demonstration outside the jail on Saturday. Some protesters carried "Free Ryan" signs.

Oh, please. Ryan Frederick is right where he belongs - in jail. Until the matter is adjudicated, anyway. Even so, some are begging the system to spring him, fueled by the half-truths and outright lies spreading through cyberspace that portray Frederick as a "drug war victim."

Unfortunately, this uninformed rush to judgment isn't confined to the blogosphere.

When was the last time you heard a defense lawyer, in a highly publicized murder case, no less, say that he does not want a change of venue?

"No, no, he has too much support here," said Frederick's attorney, James Broccoletti, when asked if he'd like the trial moved.

If it's unfair to have a jury pool skewed toward conviction, it should also be unfair to have one awash in sympathizers.

We can all agree that this is a sad and troubling case, one that raises serious questions about Chesapeake police procedures. Yet it raises equally vexing questions about the duties and responsibilities of private citizens who choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

The tragic part of this story is not that this young man is behind bars. He'll have his day in court. The true tragedy is that a young woman has been widowed. Three children are fatherless. And Chesapeake lost a cop in the line of duty.

Since the shooting, there's been a lot of grumbling about Virginia's drug laws and efforts to enforce them.

If you believe marijuana should be legal, call your state legislator and demand that it be decriminalized. Don't blame the cops for enforcing Virginia's laws.

I don't know if Ryan Frederick is guilty of murder or of anything else. Neither do you. None of us has all the facts.

So here's a thought: What do you say we all hold our fire until the defendant goes on trial?


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; barfalert; chesapeakedetective; copkiller; frederick; gun; jarrodshivers; leo; marijuana; noknockwarrants; policestate; ryanfrederick; swat
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To: AppyPappy

I believe the cop was IN the house according to what I’ve read now.


61 posted on 02/26/2008 1:30:17 PM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/et al.)
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To: Rick.Donaldson; AppyPappy
One report says cop was outside, engaged in breaking through the door and had already smashed one door panel.

On the face of it, a break and enter - in which case shooting through the door would appear not totally unjustifiable

62 posted on 02/26/2008 1:58:25 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
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To: MEGoody
One of two things ~ he knew what/who he was shooting at, or he shot out of fear.

Glad we got the debate down to that point.

Now, why is he in the sack at 8:30 PM?

63 posted on 02/26/2008 3:15:23 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: logic
They are neighbors, outside, and these are single-family homes, right?

Lots of times I don't hear what's going on in my neighbors' homess.

64 posted on 02/26/2008 3:19:24 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Rick.Donaldson

I’d damned sure better see a badge or the words POLICE on their front, hat, back or something.


I find blue and red flashing lights shining in the windows to be fair evidence that it’s the cops for real.


65 posted on 02/26/2008 3:19:46 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Waiting for tagline...)
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To: ltc8k6
If the tank is full, the toilet will flush once with the water supply turned off.

How much can a drug dealer dispose of in one flush, without leaving residue behind? Is going after such quantities with no-knock raids worth the risk such tactics pose to everyone?

66 posted on 02/26/2008 3:23:29 PM PST by supercat
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To: muawiyah

Some deaf people have trouble speaking- especially if they’re dead


67 posted on 02/26/2008 3:23:41 PM PST by Krankor (kROGER)
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To: muawiyah
Now, why is he in the sack at 8:30 PM?

Because he goes to work at 4:30 AM

68 posted on 02/26/2008 3:28:05 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Not guilty.


69 posted on 02/26/2008 3:29:49 PM PST by flaglady47 (Algore: send global warming to Chicago area; will pay any carbon tax - desperate)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Could be. This is an important factoid ~ if he’s a shift worker and this is in the middle of his standard sleep cycle, he may not have been aware of the police presence until they were banging on his bedroom door.


70 posted on 02/26/2008 3:43:34 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: NYFriend
Is it unreasonable to make the police give suspected drug dealers ten minutes notice of a raid, allowing the suspected drug dealers time to flush any drugs down the toilet or grab their guns and get ready to shoot it out? Unreasonable, right?

Unless the police have reason to believe that the inside of the house is always guarded, what is wrong with the approach of intercepting the suspect when he's entering or leaving, or else conducting the search when nobody is home?

IMHO, state legislatures need to enact at least three provisions to ensure compliance with the Constitution:

  1. All evidence given in a request for a warrant must be supported by oath or affirmation, relating to personal knowledge of the affiant.
  2. Any government personnel forcing entry into a private building bear the responsibility of proving their identity to anyone else who is entitled to be there. Except when infeasible due to exigent circumstances, such personnel also bear the responsibility of preserving evidence that they have done so.

  3. If a cop acts in such a fashion that a lawful building occupant reasonably fears for his life, that cop shall bear the risk of anything the occupant might do.
Imposing such requirements on police shouldn't make their job much more difficult, but would make everybody safer.

BTW, I forget who first posed this question, but I think it's a good one: if someone smashes into your home and yells "POLICE", is it more likely to be (1) a crook yelling "police", or (2) real police? If the answer is (1), then shooting at the intruders would hardly be unreasonable. If the answer is (2), something is clearly wrong with raid policies.

71 posted on 02/26/2008 3:44:36 PM PST by supercat
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To: Drew68
Was Detective Shivers executing a no-knock entry?
Yes. Additionally, no drugs were found.

Hmm. It almost sounds like somebody on the Chesapeake police force or in the DA's office wanted to get rid of Shivers, Serpico-style.

72 posted on 02/26/2008 3:49:47 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: brwnsuga

Was this one of those no-knock warrants?


73 posted on 02/26/2008 4:06:20 PM PST by wastedyears (This is my BOOMSTICK)
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To: muawiyah

There have been and continue to be a series of home invasions in the Sf Bay area. One last week killed three or four residents.


74 posted on 02/26/2008 4:09:09 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: Joe Boucher

From what I’m hearing the informant gave bad information. He was supposedly growing some pot plants and that hasn’t panned out. I feel sorry for the detective’s family, they seem to be lovely people, but I also feel terrible for the “defendant” whose house was robbed not too long before this incident. To call it first degree murder implies that he planned to kill this detective, but I don’t think this charge is going to stick. I hope he gets a good lawyer.


75 posted on 02/26/2008 5:00:56 PM PST by brwnsuga (Proud, Black, Conservative!!!)
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To: NYFriend

One of the major points of warrants was to insure that the resident/homeowner would *know* that it was an official investigation and not just a robbery in progress.

The whole process is pretty much invalidated by the “no knock” policy. There are very few criminals who deliberately want a shootout with the police. That is almost never the case. There are probably more shootouts over mistaken identity than deliberate shootouts with the police.


76 posted on 02/26/2008 5:28:46 PM PST by marktwain
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

That’s what it sounds like. Other questions this didn’t answer. Did the police have the right address? How many were there?


77 posted on 02/26/2008 6:06:06 PM PST by arthurus
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To: Rick.Donaldson

If the homeowner id firing a semi-auto shotgun aimed at head level, maybe the invaders don’t come out on top, even with their vests and shorts.


78 posted on 02/26/2008 6:11:27 PM PST by arthurus
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To: SeaHawkFan
Once the defendant is exonerated he needs to change his address very soon. The police will get revenge. A few years ago a young fellow here got misidentified and arrested. The charges were obviously wrongly applied soon after but the state's attorney insisted on going to trial and that judge never second guesses the state's attorney. The jury was out for a few minutes and turned him loose. The kid got questioned as a "person of interest" several times in the following 6 months and collected enough tickets to lose his license before his father decided the family needed to live in another state.
79 posted on 02/26/2008 6:25:20 PM PST by arthurus
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To: Rick.Donaldson

The epitome of no-knock occurred in Waco, Texas a few years back. The “police” burned up a few people and shot a few more as I recall.


80 posted on 02/26/2008 6:28:18 PM PST by arthurus
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