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McCain's birthplace prompts queries about whether that rules him out (NY Slimes)
International Tribune ^ | 28 Feb 08 | Carl Hulse Published

Posted on 02/28/2008 3:40:11 AM PST by SkyPilot

WASHINGTON: The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

McCain's likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a "natural-born citizen" can hold the nation's highest office.

(Excerpt) Read more at iht.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: canalzone; foreignborn; marines; mccain; nytimes; panama; president; seebreaking
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To: PapaBear3625
NATURALIZED CITIZEN - One who, being born an alien, has lawfully become a citizen of the United States Under the constitution and laws.

McCain was born being a US citizen, as opposed to being "naturalized" (applying for citizenship and jumping through the hoops)

From the link I cited earlier:

Because 8 USC 1403(a) uses the term “is declared to be a citizen” (emphasis added), that leans heavily towards a lex soli position (naturalization). And persons born to citizens between November 1903 (when Panama became independent from Colombia with U.S. intervention) and February 1904 are not declared citizens under this section, which indicates that the declaration of citizenship is simply naturalization and not by birth since it is dependent on the law and a calendar date.

Furthermore, naturalization is defined in 8 USC 1101(a)(23):

(a) As used in this chapter—
(23) The term “naturalization” means the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever.

In other words, naturalization means a person is made, conferred, or “declared” a citizen after birth, leaving “natural born” to only mean becoming a citizen at birth. This is consistent with 8 USC 1403(a), which was enacted when John McCain was 16 years old. So at 16 years old John McCain was naturalized as a citizen by legislation, that legislation being the INA.

101 posted on 02/28/2008 6:34:06 AM PST by FreedomCalls (Texas: "We close at five.")
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To: SkyPilot

Classic drive by tactic: throw mud on the wall and see how much sticks and keep on driving.......


102 posted on 02/28/2008 6:34:29 AM PST by Hot Tabasco ( Don’t go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.)
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To: palmer
Fatal flaw, that section is not applicable to McCain, 1401 is.

From the link I cited earlier:

If you look again at 8 USC 1401(c) and 1403(a), you see a big difference. 8 USC 1401(c) address births outside the U.S., meaning clearly that the “born in the United States” clause of the 14th Amendment cannot apply to this form of citizenship. Therefore a person that falls under 8 USC 1401(c) has to be a naturalized citizen. 8 USC 1403(a) already “declares” citizenship and implies naturalization. The only logical conclusion is that the Canal Zone was considered to be outside the United States, else these sections (8 USC 1401(c) and 8 USC 1403(a)) never needed to be codified into law in the first place, and 8 USC 1401(a) would apply instead.

103 posted on 02/28/2008 6:36:58 AM PST by FreedomCalls (Texas: "We close at five.")
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To: FreedomCalls; PapaBear3625

1403 doesn’t apply to McCain because he was already a citizen under 1401. He was natural-born, so he could not be naturalized.


104 posted on 02/28/2008 6:37:17 AM PST by palmer
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To: FreedomCalls

Citizen at birth means natural-born citizen.


105 posted on 02/28/2008 6:40:04 AM PST by palmer
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To: KingLudd

Hamilton wasn’t president. This law in fact may have been introduced specifically in order to prevent him from becoming so.


106 posted on 02/28/2008 6:49:57 AM PST by babble-on
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To: FreedomCalls

Looked through your link, muddy thinking for sure. Read again and you will see that the lex and jus arguments are flawed and contradictory but 1401 is applicable. Then he throws the 1403 argument in just to contradict himself again!


107 posted on 02/28/2008 6:53:49 AM PST by palmer
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To: Philly Nomad

Actually I did read the article, and again you didn’t bother to answer my question, if it’s moot point why print it?

To use your analogy, the new york times basically says: person found near crime, didn’t commit crime, but was still found near crime, why was he there?


108 posted on 02/28/2008 6:56:58 AM PST by gjones77
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To: expat_panama

He was born on a military installation.


109 posted on 02/28/2008 7:00:05 AM PST by glennshepard (Semper Fi)
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To: All

Looks like the drive-by media is at it again. ABC’s GMA had a little blurt about this NYT’s hit piece earlier today. I don’t know if they followed it up and discussed it though.


110 posted on 02/28/2008 7:02:53 AM PST by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: PapaBear3625
3. 8 USC 1403(a) declares naturalized citizenship in 1952 on persons born in the Canal Zone to citizen parents.

That was the question I ask, can an act of congress modify the constitution??

111 posted on 02/28/2008 7:05:43 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: dangus

See #83


112 posted on 02/28/2008 7:08:45 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: maverickusna2009

It doesn’t matter if he was born on US soil, as long as both of his parents are American born citizens. Sheesh won’t these people ever get it.?


113 posted on 02/28/2008 7:11:13 AM PST by DaiHuy (I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you a smart American. (George Carlin)
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To: expat_panama

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf


114 posted on 02/28/2008 7:13:09 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: KingLudd
Hamilton wasn't a president either. He was the Treasury Secretary
115 posted on 02/28/2008 7:13:54 AM PST by DaiHuy (I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you a smart American. (George Carlin)
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To: Mrs.Nooseman
My son was born in Germany,but is a US citizen,since his Dad was in the Military.

True, but he cannot be president.

116 posted on 02/28/2008 7:15:58 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: FreedomCalls

Can an act of congress change the constitution???


117 posted on 02/28/2008 7:20:02 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: gjones77

Because it’s interesting to look at the history and the legal thought behind it.


118 posted on 02/28/2008 7:21:53 AM PST by Philly Nomad
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To: FreedomCalls
Here is an artical that disagrees with you.

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/why-john-mccain-ineligible-be-president-united-states-second-update

119 posted on 02/28/2008 7:22:20 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: FreedomCalls
It is NOT my argument.

The flaw in their arguement is 8 US 1401. That defines nationals and citizens of the United States. Section (c) says "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person" are natural born U.S. citizens.

120 posted on 02/28/2008 7:25:30 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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