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Pentagon battle breaks out over a spy plane
Los Angeles Times ^ | March 21, 2008 | Peter Spiegel, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

Posted on 03/21/2008 10:19:29 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Defense Secretary Gates wants more unmanned Predator aircraft in Iraq. But the Air Force worries about the long-term viability of the spy plane program.

WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has ordered the Air Force to put nearly all of its unmanned Predator aircraft into the skies over the Middle East, forcing the service to take steps that officers worry could hobble already-stressed drone squadrons.

Pressure from the Defense secretary in recent months has nearly doubled the number of Predators available to help hunt insurgents and find roadside bombs in Iraq. But it has forced air commanders into a scramble for crews that officers said could hurt morale and harm the long-term viability of the Predator program.

Some officers said pressure from Gates resulted in one plan that could have taken the Air Force down a path similar to the German Luftwaffe, which cut back training in World War II to get more pilots in the air.


"That was the end of their air force," said Col. Chris Chambliss, commander of the Air Force's Predator wing. The Air Force plan, presented to the military leadership in January, eventually was scaled back.

The surge in drone flights is Gates' latest push for short-term measures to win the Iraq war that will have long-term implications for the U.S. military. In recent months, Gates has campaigned to increase the size of the Army and to ship new, heavily armored troop transporters, known as MRAPs, to Iraq.

Because of the far-reaching implications of the Predator debate, a fight has broken out between the Army and the Air Force over control of one of the most heralded technological successes of the war.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: drones; miltech; predator
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To: SJSAMPLE

Meanwhile the Army uses raw recruits to fly the most complex aircraft in the world, helicopters.


61 posted on 03/21/2008 5:59:42 PM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: jeffers
Image and video hosting by TinyPic ...;0)
62 posted on 03/21/2008 7:10:34 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: ClearCase_guy

It’s still a valid point. While the Luftwaffe found that it’s pilots died... the US Air Force will see their Predator ‘pilots’ simply walk away from the Air Force, leaving no one qualified to use the system.

Though they are still alive, at least. But the practical upshot is the same. No one left to use the plane.


63 posted on 03/21/2008 10:16:05 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: paddles

Lets lay out this mess. The Army flys its unmanned aircraft with NCOs. I’ll admit there is a Lt around to manage a dozen or so of these guys...but its all enlisted guys. The Air Force...in its questionable wisdom...decided that no enlisted man was capable of flight operations.

So this is what develops...they organize into squadrons...a Lt Col in charge of each one....a couple of majors....and probably two or three dozen Captains and Lt’s. Pay cost per months: $250,000 per month...and figure in another $100k in additional costs...for each squadron for their “pilots”.

The army side of things? Well...figure forty odd guys...almost all enlisted...and you got $100k...with probably $30k in additional costs.

The Air Force time span? Well...none of the pilots are happy to be unmanned vehicle pilots...so the kindly management at the Air Force agreed to a standard 3-year tour....and then thats it. They didn’t exactly man all their billets...which became apparent when Mr. Gates said deploy every single Predator and man them. The Air Force now wants to brag about the upcoming Reaper vehicle and the 200-odd crews (2-man of course) which they are about to train...which are also unmanned vehicles and no real pilot wants to fly them either.

So to meet this Gates-emergency....they will have to force every single Predator pilot who was approaching his 36th month of duty and was thinking he could finally leave...to stay...maybe one year....maybe two years. The guys who left in the past year...according to the press...there is talk of brining a unspecified number of them back to Predator. Their reaction...I’m betting...will be a bit of fury and anger that they did their time and don’t want to be a unmanned pilot anymore.

So the answer....my punk “World-of-Warcraft” son...and his brothern. These punks...all seventeen and eighteen years old...have been in training for more than five years and have literally thousands of hours of simulator training for various gaming aircraft and war.

My punk son is fully ready and available to sign up...show up at some Nellis range to fly the predator...even eighteen hours a day...seven days a week. He doesn’t want a flight suit or fancy boots or even a leather jacket. He would accept pay of $2k a month and a trip to Hawaii once a year just chill out. He won’t complain about sitting in a lazy-boy recliner in Iraq or Afghanistan and flying the Reaper or Predator and taking video or firing missiles.

The amount of training my punk son might require? Give him a week of orientation and 18 hours in the simulator...and he’s “top-gun” material. His directions? Just give him the map, the mission required, and the Predator...with a six-pack of Mountain Dew. Three-year tours? Forget that...my punk kid will stay there for years and years if necessary and be happy and content (although no officers club activities for him....just more gaming).

The Air Force...bluntly...has screwed up. They’ve allowed competent people to think that a real college education makes them real pilots and thus real Predator pilots. The woeful truth....my punk son can probably outfly them on the simulator and in real life....and is more than capable of staying at the stick for twenty-four hours straight...if the vehicle has the fuel to do the job.

So...if they really wanted to support those Army guys in Iraq or Afghanistan...and they really can’t come up with enough pilots...just call me up and I’ll pack my punk son’s bag for him and deliver him to the front gate. You don’t even have to waste time with marching training.


64 posted on 03/22/2008 1:50:43 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Old Mountain man
I wouldn't say raw recruits.
Warrant Officers with officer leadership.

But, both The Army and The USMC use enlisted to fly RPVs in forward combat.
65 posted on 03/22/2008 9:33:57 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: SJSAMPLE

And do it well!


66 posted on 03/22/2008 2:35:19 PM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Playing catch up for the past few days of unread pings. Hopefully enough cool heads will prevail in both services and a best common goal will be reached. Obviously it is foolish to screw up all the progress that has been made in how we can use these vehicles, along with the many other smaller craft for recon work etc..


67 posted on 03/22/2008 5:41:09 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Duncan Hunter was our best choice...)
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