Pilot's gun discharges on US Airways flight

wcnc via Drudge Report ^ | March 23, 2008 | DIANA RUGG

[AmericanDave]

The TSA is investigating and will issue a report, but because of security issues you won’t hear anything about the procedures involved.

Let me just say that the procedures are like the illegitimate child of a lawyer and a bureaucrat.

[2111USMC]

O-K. I’ll take a guess that he was removing the padlock from the holster. The padlock hasp hits the trigger of the still holstered weapon and “bang”.

Do I win something if I’m right?

[safisoft]

The padlock hasp hits the trigger of the still holstered weapon and “bang”

Can't even say, "I can't say." < grin >

[El Gato]

Again what blithering idiot did not get the memo that professionals NEVER chamber a round until it is ready for business. Then again most of these so called 'trained' police officers were probably never in the military and are being trained by people that were never in the military.

The pilots, and most police, have to be ready for business, whenever they are "on duty". These pilots were. Thus a chambered round.

[El Gato]

Or a Glock while being holstered with a finger still on the trigger.

According to This Guns and Ammo article They FFDOs are issued HK USP40 Compact LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) pistol. Also several other articles, including this one from BNET Business network

Don't know which caliber that one is, they come in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. (I want one!).\

[El Gato]

I will give up if you let me shoot it someday!

You can shoot mine, although it's a more common Inland, in May at DCS for the TCMS. At least I hope to be there.

Your daughter shot it last year in San Antonio. She shot it better than I did!

[El Gato]

They were dicking around.

That's the way to bet for sure and for certain.

[El Gato]

Haven’t read the article yet. Betting it was a Glock.

How much did you bet?

You'd lose. They are issued H&K USP-40s, with a special LEO modifications. Don't know just what those are, but the USP is available in Double Action Only, and I suspect that's what they saddle the FFDOs with.

According to the H&K website they are available:

- SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever for safety and de-cocking function, arranged on the right or left side

- SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever, arranged on the right or left side

- SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever only for de-cocking function, arranged on the right or left side

- Variant DA Double Action with safety lever for safety function, arranged on the right or left side, without de-cocking lever

[El Gato]

I can say, it would be seen as stupid by any firearms instructor. And this pilot was likely just following that procedure.

In flight?

[El Gato]

I can say, it would be seen as stupid by any firearms instructor. And this pilot was likely just following that procedure.

Never mind, I see the procedure in question, and you are correct, it's asinine.

[cynwoody]

Speaking of that, what’s the protocol if a pilot suddenly decides to shoot dead his copilot, for whatever reason, then hides behind those reinforced cockpit doors?

Ask Tom Clancy. (Hint: Evacuate the Capitol!)

[matthew fuller]

I believe that you are right. After reading thread, it seems to be a consensus that was an HK. A lot of opinion pointing to some sort of “lock”. I believe that H&K’s have an excellent reputation.

[El Gato]

I wonder if it was in the holster at the time it went off?

Most likely it was, along with the padlock.

[El Gato]

O-K. I’ll take a guess that he was removing the padlock from the holster.

Or putting it back into the holster to service a call of nature.

[epow]

According to This Guns and Ammo article They FFDOs are issued HK USP40 Compact

My son is a pilot with NWA. When the armed pilot program first began the pilots furnished their own guns at their expense, and AFAIK they still do. IIRC the only approved pistol at the time was the HK USP and only in 9mm, but that may have been changed by now to include the .40 and .45 caliber HKs. I know that if it was my choice I would choose the .45 which I am very familiar with. The .45 caliber round that is, not the HK pistol. I'm sure it's a fine piece of work, but I have been using Colt 1911s for many years now and I don't see any reason to change horses in midstream.

My son chose not to buy another expensive gun and take the mandatory training class at the FBI range in VA at his own expense, so he doesn't carry a gun on board although he often flies with captains who do.

[safisoft]

When the armed pilot program first began the pilots furnished their own guns at their expense

That was NEVER true.

[USNBandit]

I talked to a buddy that is an FFDO and uses the holster with the padlock. He says is is possible to screw up putting the padlock in and get it in front of the trigger if the weapon isn't fully in the holster.

[USNBandit]

You never chamber a round until you are ready to use the weapon.You are correct for the wrong reason. When we go on duty we have to be ready to use our weapon(s). LEO's aren't going to the range, we are going to a gunfight. It may be today, tomorrow, next year or never, you just don't know.

My personal guess from talking to a couple FFDO's is that this guy was trying to put the pad lock in his poorly designed holster and got the hasp in front of the trigger instead of behind it. Just a bad selection of equipment combined with excessively stringent regulations.

[xsrdx]

The Glock trigger can be depressed and the gun fired without having a finger on the trigger.

As can any revolver.

Interestingly, the gun in this case was an HK USP. 40.

You can hate on Glocks all you want, but whatever you do don't shoot one, because you'll ditch that Beretta in a heartbeat.