Skip to comments.Informant: Men had sex with underage girls in FLDS temple
Posted on 04/09/2008 4:41:39 PM PDT by JRochelle
SAN ANGELO, Tex. - Adult FLDS men were having sex with underage brides inside the massive limestone temple at the polygamous sect's Texas ranch, a confidential informant told authorities.
According to a request for a search warrant unsealed today by a Texas judge, Schliecher County Sheriff David Doran has been working with a confidential informant who has shared information about the ranch over several years. On Saturday, as a sweeping raid was underway at the YFZ Ranch, the informant spoke to Doran and made the allegation about the temple, the court filing said.
The affidavit was from Texas Ranger Leslie Brooks Long, who reported being at the ranch and observing a bed inside the temple with disturbed linens and a long hair, apparently from a female.
The document was filed in support of the state's request for a second warrant to search the ranch, owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That warrant was signed Sunday; an earlier warrant had been signed on Thursday, the day the raid began.
Since then, authorities have removed 419 children, accompanied by 139 women.
Tom Green County District Judge Barbara Walther unsealed the documents during a hearing today.
She also ruled three members of the sect have the legal right to challenge the massive search, and said she will appoint a special master to review documents and computer hard drives seized from the sect's ranch. The special master will determine what material is privileged and protected as strictly religious.
Gerald Goldstein, who is representing sect members, estimated that hundreds of boxes of documents have been taken from the YFZ Ranch.
"We ought to be able to cull out those that are sacred," he told the judge. "If it relates to the children, they get it. If it doesn't, they don't."
Police can seize any documents related to family lineage, he acknowledged.
Allison Palmer, assistant district attorney for the 51st District, argued that sect members did not have legal standing, or should not be allowed to challenge the search. No arrests have been made, she pointed out.
But the judge disagreed, granting legal standing to three men:
- Lyle Jeffs, representing himself and the FLDS church. He is the bishop of the FLDS church's Short Creek stake on the border of Utah and Arizona and the father of two children taken from the ranch.
- Ranch overseer Merrill Jessop, who is also is a presiding elder in the sect.
- Isaac Jeffs, a brother of the sect's leader.
Goldstein said the men are no longer seeking to quash two state search warrants used so far by officials, conceding the point is moot because a federal search warrant has been issued.
Dang, you just asked the second question which has turned in to flame wars on these threads.
I will avoid the various answers that trigger the fighting (because I am not certain as to the validity or invalidity of those answers) and instead point out that a big problem is that the cult members are very isolated, particularly the women. There have been women who left the FLDS and told their stories. In some cases they were young and, in a few instances, their “husbands” were prosecuted. Additionally the “prophet” is in jail.
But for charges to be filed there essentially has to be a complaint and there are few people who actually have the information necessary to file the complaints. In most cases all there was was hearsay (from a legal standpoint). It’s not like these “marriages” are filed with the courts.
That said, there is no excuse for the fact that the officials in the welfare departments in Utah and Arizona did not both deal with the welfare fraud and report the obvious cases of child abuse.
It won't be long before I'm accused (again) of being a “defender” of the Jeffs cult. Nothing could be further from the truth. I only tried to shed some light on and attempt to bring some common sense to the lynch mob mentality. Jeffs and his ilk should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and hung if necessary.
This case will certainly keep the lawyers busy for many years. What a mess this has become and it looks like it will only get worse. It is truly unfortunate that there are so many “Mormon-haters” here who are fueled by nothing but hatred, all in the name of God. What a world, huh?
They are not men. A real man would never victimize a child, or anyone else weaker than they.
Is it just me, or is there something very familiar about their religious beliefs? Islam I just can't seem to put my finger on it. Islam
47. STEVE WILLIS 48. ROBERT WILLIALMS 49. CONWAY LE BLEU 50. TODDY McKEEHAN These four died in the SAME MINUTE, 2/28/93 "executed" by gunfire in the Waco, Texas assault on the Branch Davidians. - All four were examined by a "private doctor" and determined to have died from nearly identical wounds to the left temple, so-called execution style. According to Linda Thompson, videotapes and other evidence indicates that none died from guns fired by Branch Davidians
The Texas Rangers are one of the finest law enforcement outfits ever...
Do some research before you denigrate such a group.
I saw Carolyn Jessop on the news. She was 18 when she got married. At what age do you become an adult and become responsible for the decisons you make. She also stuck around long enough to have 8 children. I think she said 15 years. I believe she was an adult that made certain bad decisons with her life by yelling brainwash you absolve yourself of any and all guilt and responsibility for your life. I saw her and she took ZERO responsibility for any of the choices she made. Did her children have a choice of staying or leaving? did the father have any say? probably not if the family courts are involved.
Maybe we should have a separate thread on “brainwashing.” Are students at Harvard “brainwashed” because they move from home, only see their parents a couple times a year, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, spend hours and hours studying, are sleep deprived, take years of their lives to get a degree.
Or how about some tv junkie that watches 70 hours of tv a week and believes Oprah is the gospel?
So if any group has a similar level/intensity of commitment in religion they are brainwashed, a cult, etc. And of course the government churches are “compounds,” i.e. code word for threat real or imagined.
this is NOT like Waco....the authorities are doing a careful investigation and local community/churches are helping. Pretty transparent if you ask me.
agree with you..first thing I thought...sleepers..where are the Kitties! We need them NOW!
***At what age do you become an adult and become responsible for the decisons you make.***
Some people have the misfortune of being born in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation in which there is no viable out.
>>”You have got to be kidding. Those young teenage girls are pregnant.”<<
It will be interesting to find out if any of the few remaining teenage boys are the fathers, rather than the 50+ year old men. I would imagine that it would be hard to hide all the perverted sexual activities and that the boys were involved, too. DNA will tell all. At this point, we can only speculate. I fear the worst possible stories are yet to come.
Damn the FLDS for claiming affiliation with the Mormons (LDS), damn them to hell.
I guess in reality, there have been several religions that gave the "godly" okay for men to rape young girls and to keep them as their sex slaves.....I don't know any other way to put it.....
>>”...but the Book of Mormon is pretty much only by the bedside of Mormons.”<<
BS. How many Mormons do you know? Every LDS home I’ve been in has proudly exhibited and read from the Bible.
People at Harvard are free to come and go as they chose.
People at Harvard have control over their own bodies. You apply to Harvard, you are “given over to it.” People are on a waiting list to get into Harvard, not out of it. If you do drop out of Harvard — to do so, you don't have to call the domestic violence hot line.
correction: You aren’t ‘given over to it.’
ah....the fundamental reason why polygamy is cultural insanity......it deprives the younger men and what do the younger men do when they have no girlfriends, no wife?.....we'll find out as China is about to reap its karma for killing off female unborn children and female infanticide that they have long encouraged....
Amen greyfoxx39. Waaaay too many newbies wrapping their posts in laments over Waco and everything from property rights to homeschooling to ‘disgust’ at calling the ‘compound’ anything other than a village or gated community (a few of the ‘reaches’ of logic made). Others have posted this sentiment that I share...I am shocked by the lack of outrage at the treatment of the girls at FLDS and the vemon spewed towards the Texas Rangers and Children’s Services Department. Statutory rape, along with widescale welfare fraud seem to be the norm there...but the outrage is focused on Texas taking protective custody of young girls who were routinely raped (and according to the 16 y/o informant beaten also). Disrupters here on FR to make conservatives ‘look’ bad? I am beginning to now check the sign on date of those I respond to...
...but the Book of Mormon is pretty much only by the bedside of Mormons.
Read it again, it means that the Book of Mormon will only be by the bedside of Mormons, you will not find it in very many Christian homes, except for those engaged in some kind of research, for instance I would like to have one of the early versions.
Kind of like the snake handlers are a offshoot of evangelical Protestant gone over to the dark side and tempting God-superstitions, dictatorial elders, secret rituals--all in the name of God, with no love of God and fellowman, no joy, no honor.
FLDS opponents say wrong man named in warrant
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated:
04/09/2008 02:30:43 AM MDT
The warrant issued Thursday evening named 50-year-old Dale Barlow, alleging he had married and impregnated a 16-year-old girl. But Joni Holm, who has helped children leave the FLDS, said the teenager who called officials on March 29 and 30 and claimed she was abused is married to a different, younger man. The girl’s husband is in his late 30s, is related to Dale Barlow, shares his surname and has a similar sounding first name.
OOPS. The mess begins. Mark my words. This is going to blow up in the face of the Government.
Wow, kicked out at a young age so the “old guys” could have the girls? Well, where are they all? Why aren’t they out there with their stories?
Perhaps because they DON’T EXIST?
Anyone defending these pedophile monsters in any way, is a wicked human being..
I notice that in the first thread with the first defend poster.They make me sick and they should get off now.They don’t belong here.They have new sign up dates like you said.Reminds me of the Westerfield trial.
“I am beginning to now check the sign on date of those I respond to...”
Look at the posting history of many of the other pro-cult supporters besides the noobys and you will notice something very, very, odd, they were early, and strong, Romney supporters as well.
What could account for that?
Even people saying we should just wait for the truth to come out? Even they are wicked? Seems to me some people here have tried convicted and hung the members based on what appears to be an anonymous call and the incriminating evidence is a bed in a temple.
Well, that and some pregnant young girtls.
This is beyond words! DAMN THEM!
More to this than meets the eye according to this writer. Many times in my life I have been shown that those that haste to a judgement are often times found to be in error:
1. The affidavit, as I suspect most are in this type of situation, is based entirely on hearsay facts. This means that the facts alleged are not really facts the person who makes the affidavit has personally observed. In this case, Lynn McFadden, a woman over 18 years of age, and who is an Investigative Supervisor for the Department of Family and Protective Services (The Department) provided the sworn testimony which served as the basis for this affidavit.
2. Ms. McFadden claimed that she has personally reviewed the Departments Original Petition For Protection of a Child in an Emergency and for Conservatorship in suit Affecting the Parent-Child Relationship (The Petition). This means, that the affidavit Texas Authorities relied upon to forcibly remove over 400 Children from the FLDS compound, is based on information that someone else apparently told Ms. McFadden. She is not the person to whom the original complaint was apparently made. Had she been, she could and should have so testified in her own sworn affidavit. It is also important to note that the allegations are not the actual allegations of the 16 year old minor child/mother. According to media reports, authorities cant seem to find that person, as of yet. In fact, it is actually unclear from the affidavit whether Ms. McFadden was even present during any of this investigation. My sense is that she was not, or she would and should have so testified in the affidavit.
Now, Im not suggesting that the McFadden affidavit would not be sufficient to remove perhaps the one pregnant minor child, who complained of sexual and child abuse, particularly if they actually found such a woman when they went in and initially searched the compound; however, I find it unbelievable that it would and could serve as the basis for a small armed invasion of an entire community, resulting in the the wholesale kidnapping under color of law hundreds of innocent children, with their mothers in tow.
3. Ms. McFaddens allegations of the sexual and child abuse of the minor child, who herself is supposed to have an eight month old baby, and is currently several weeks pregnant with another child, chronicle a literal horror story of physical and sexual abuse. These allegations should absolutely be investigated, and if there is actual evidence to support such allegations, the abuser should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and never let out of prison, in my humble opinion. The abused minor child should certainly be removed from the compound, along with her own child, and placed in state custody. Further, the minors own parents should be investiaged for child abuse as well. If McFaddens allegations are true, then the minors own parents actions are implicated and possibly merit criminal prosecution.
4. The remainder of the affidavit gets a little soft on why over 400 other children were removed from the compound. McFadden relates about how Department investigators while searching for the subject 16 year old minor victim:
observed a number of teenaged girls who appeared to be minors and who appeared to be pregnant, as well as several teenaged girls who already had given and had their own infants. Investigators determined that there is a wide-spread pattern and practice among the residents of the YFZ Ranch in which young minor female residents are conditioned to to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men . . .
OK, well, how many teeaged girls did they observe, one, two, five, ten, a hundred, four hundred? They appeared to be minors? How old, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19? How did they determine their ages in this whirlwind investigation? The age of consent in Texas is 17. So, the upper limits of the teen aged years, would appear to be outside the jurisdiction of The Department. How many are several teen aged girls? Did it number in excess of 400?
Appeared to be pregnant? You mean we dont know? Texas didnt find out whether there in fact were other pregnant teen aged children before removing over 400 other children from the compound? Certainly a good number of those children could not possibly have been pregnant, either from age limitations or gender.
How did the investigators determine there was a wide spread pattern and practice of anything at the compound? What investigation and what facts had they determined prior to their raid? How many of these observations are actually conclusions of the investigators and law enforcement at the scene? Why not take the other potential cases on a case basis, investigating each? Certainly none of these people were going to go anywhere.
5. Ms. McFadden concludes that based on their investigation The Department concluded that every single minor child at the compound, whether they had actually made any complaints at all, was in fact in immediate danger. Every, single minor childs health and safety were in immediate danger. Every single minor child was the victim of neglect and/or sexual abuse. These are startling conclusions, but, not exactly based on any facts, at least as far as the facts are alleged in the affidavit.
“Welcome to the Messenger and Advocate. We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons).”
Many, many of these posters are almost ‘gleeful’ that there maybe problems with the warrants or the initial search of the ‘compound’ (oops...my bad, gated community.) Texas Rangers = bad; FLDS = good. And its all out on the ‘net for the world to see. Which is why I feel compelled to post (if at all possible) to assure that FR doesn’t get tainted as supporting the FDLS ‘lifestyle.’ REASONABLE CONSERVATIVES ARE ANGERED AND REPULSED BY THE TREATMENT OF YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN AT YFZ.
Thx for the suggestion at researching prevous posts...you are right...alot of info can be gleened.
Well I know the cops are watching these threads.Trust me on that one PennsylvaniaMom.:)Like I said it reminds me of the Westerfield trial.They come out of the woodwork like roaches.
Hey, newb. Welcome to FR. So you jump right in trying to discredit Carolyn Jessup?
Why don’t you learn something about her before you start trashing her. So what? You expect a mother to ask her kids permission to take the out of a horrifying abusive situation? Get dad’s permission?
Her oldest daughter DID go back when she turned 18.
So why are you defending this group? Who are you?
Yes it should and will come out.
It seems quite a bit has already come out however.
I think people have to be blind however not see what what has probably gone on.
I think that after a fair trial; those found guilty should be executed.
I hope that you ( and everyone on this forum) agree with that sentiment.
Now go easy there...it's not like those people just pulled their religious beliefs out of hat or something.......oh wait....never mind.....
I think it is more a horror over the fact that a police screw up will provide an avenue for a protracted defense.
It appears the feds saved the posterior of the state prosecutors with a federal warrent which named the proper defendant.
The sooner the case gets to finality the better for these kids. Sloppy police work only helps the criminals.
“That is the root of the problem. They are following Joseph Smith. Every blasted one of them.”
No actually they don’t. It is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ that does. They have since changed their name to the Church of Peace. They are out of Kansas City.
I haven’t read anyone posting hate to Mormons.
I have lots or Mormon relatives and I am well aware of the doctrines of Mormonism, and have pointed out the obvious contradictions and opposing doctrines of their religion on occaisions, to some of them, but I do not hate them because I have done that; nor do people hate Mormons who do the same here.
To point out what Mormon doctrine is and has been [and still is, in secret places] is not hate. Just as the movie Fitna is not hate for pointing out the truth of what is said and done in the name of religion, so to point out what is obvious in these sects, and where they got their beliefs from, is not hate.
Quite the link there. What I find trully disturbing is the outpouring of ‘sympathy’ for the FLDS in the comments sections of the articles posted in Salt Lake City papers. That, to me, speaks volumes...
No it won’t. They are doing the right thing, at least in this place. There are many more of these places that need the same actions taken.
I was refering to the multiple polygamist cults that broke off when polygamy was banned.
Those cults are all about sex and lots of it, with a variety of partners.
That is what they are about now.
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