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This is How We Lost To The White Man
The Atlantic Monthly ^ | Ta-Nehisi Coates

Posted on 04/12/2008 2:42:58 PM PDT by freerepublic_or_die

Last summer, in Detroit’s St. Paul Church of God in Christ, I watched Bill Cosby summon his inner Malcolm X. It was a hot July evening. Cosby was speaking to an audience of black men dressed in everything from Enyce T-shirts or polos to blazers and ties...


(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: billcosby; blackfamily; class; opportunity; racism; searchisyourfriend; theblamegame
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Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: freerepublic_or_die

If attitude is a critical determinant of results, what does an attitude of blame and anger bring about?


2 posted on 04/12/2008 2:52:28 PM PDT by alrea
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To: freerepublic_or_die
I do not for one second excuse or pardon the cruelty of slavery as practiced in Africa and moved to the New World. I pray for the tortured souls who lost their lives on the way across the Atlantic.

But, is it permissible to ask African-Americans what they think would have become of them if they had NOT been brought here? Do they ever think of the African Kingdoms' responsibilities in the whole slavery matter? Knowing what we now know of Africa, would they return? Would they retire there? Just wondering.

3 posted on 04/12/2008 2:56:25 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (GOP Plank: Double Domestic Crude Production. Increase refining capacity 50 percent)
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To: Kenny Bunk

As a retirement spot... HIV Plantation? Malaria Falls? Ebola Acres?


4 posted on 04/12/2008 3:06:09 PM PDT by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

Shari’a Suburbs.


5 posted on 04/12/2008 3:11:53 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Everything is either willed or permitted by God, and nothing can hurt me." Bl. Charles de Foucauld)
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To: freerepublic_or_die

So, it’s time for a black President?

Fine. Nominate Bill Cosby. I’d prolly vote for him!

In fact, I’d vote for Bill Cosby before I’d vote for Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice.

(as an aside... I wonder how he REALLY, DEEP DOWN, feels about obama)


6 posted on 04/12/2008 3:13:16 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (I'm not voting FOR John McCain -- I'm voting AGAINST Hillary/Obama)
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To: freerepublic_or_die

On this past Thursday, I attended the honors banquet for the high school graduating class. There are over 500 in the class and around 130 earned a 3.5 or better GPA. I counted four black students in that number.

There were other racial groups represented - Hispanics, Asians, twin brothers from Columbia.

We are a town of 60,000 with one high school and each elementary / middle school receives the same funding. I would estimate that 15% of the student body is black. I am not sure how that breaks down as to grade level.

But four honors students, who happen to be black. What is wrong with this picture?

I left feeling pretty discouraged.


7 posted on 04/12/2008 3:14:01 PM PDT by don-o (My son, Ben, reports to Parris Island on June 30.)
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To: brwnsuga; KingJaja

Interesting Cosby article.


8 posted on 04/12/2008 3:15:33 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~***Just say NO to the "O"***~~~)
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To: Kenny Bunk

I have been to Africa to the poorest of nations (Malawi) and watched as the men sat in grass thatched shelters at the edge of the fields, drank tea and gossiped, while the women worked the fields with babies strapped on their backs.

Then the women harvest the crops, then they carry them to market in baskets on their heads, then they sell them in the marketplace, then they walk home and probably hand over the money to the men to buy more tea, smokes and gossip time.

Go figure. Is there a cultural factor that translates intergenerationally?

(PS: This is not unique to Africa, I also saw it in eastern Europe- offices and streets full of proefessional and semi professional worker women going to work, men either working by filling potholes or being MIA)


9 posted on 04/12/2008 3:17:23 PM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: freerepublic_or_die

“My problem,” Cosby told the audience, “is I’m tired of losing to white people.”


10 posted on 04/12/2008 3:20:31 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: freerepublic_or_die

Maybe it’s not ‘why’ they lost, but certain proof that they lost is when they start naming their kids “Ta-Nehisi”.


11 posted on 04/12/2008 3:26:15 PM PDT by bpjam (Drill For Oil or Lose Your Job!! Vote Nov 3, 2008)
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To: Kenny Bunk
>>Then he attacked African American naming traditions, and the style of dress among young blacks: “Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what’s wrong … What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don’t know a damned thing about Africa— with names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed, and all that crap, and all of them are in jail.” About then, people began to walk out of the auditorium and cluster in the lobby. There was still cheering, but some guests milled around and wondered what had happened. Some thought old age had gotten the best of Cosby. The mood was one of shock.<<

Multiculturalism isn't going to work. Americans live in America. Their ancestors came from around the world. American is a culture of its own. Diversity only divides us.

12 posted on 04/12/2008 3:26:20 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Rope, Tree & Traitor; Some Assembly Required || Gun Control Means Never Having To Say I Missed You)
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To: Kenny Bunk
I do not for one second excuse or pardon the cruelty of slavery as practiced in Africa and moved to the New World. I pray for the tortured souls who lost their lives on the way across the Atlantic.
I couldn't agree with you more.

But,is it permissible to ask African-Americans what they think would have become of them if they had NOT been brought here? Do they ever think of the African Kingdoms' responsibilities in the whole slavery matter? Knowing what we now know of Africa, would they return? Would they retire there? Just wondering.
Absolutely irrefutable. As is often the case in life, out of tragedy, misery comes opportunity, good fortune and in the aftermath of what is one of history's most heinous crimes, that of slavery, the descendants of those whose lives were so cruelly affected, have in fact reaped the privilege, bountiful blessings they otherwise would have never known.

13 posted on 04/12/2008 3:26:30 PM PDT by freerepublic_or_die (The Motto of an American Patriot:Live Free or Die.)
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To: freerepublic_or_die
The rest of the church was in full call-and-response mode, punctuating Cosby’s punch lines with laughter, applause, or cries of “Teach, black man! Teach!”

This is encouraging. He used to be vilified for saying the same thing only a few years ago. I hope it has some effect.

14 posted on 04/12/2008 3:28:31 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Nervous Tick
So, it’s time for a black President? Fine. Nominate Bill Cosby. I’d prolly vote for him!

I second.

15 posted on 04/12/2008 3:34:22 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: silverleaf

“I have been to Africa to the poorest of nations (Malawi) and watched as the men sat in grass thatched shelters at the edge of the fields, drank tea and gossiped, while the women worked the fields with babies strapped on their backs. .....Go figure. Is there a cultural factor that translates intergenerationally?”

I think it’s human nature, not race. Mankind, no matter what color will get away with whatever he’s allowed to get away with. It’s all about what a culture, society or home will put up with. I once had a white husband like you described above, but I can guarantee you there was no second baby and I was gone the next year.


16 posted on 04/12/2008 3:46:49 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: freerepublic_or_die
All in all, a very good article.

The author isn't terribly impressed by Cosby's efforts and manages to slam Republicans more than a couple times; but he bring across that Cosby's message of self-reliance -- black "conservatism" as he calls it -- is finding a receptive audience.

Well worth the long read.

17 posted on 04/12/2008 3:47:00 PM PDT by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: Kenny Bunk

No, it is not permissible to ask.
susie


18 posted on 04/12/2008 3:47:26 PM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: Doe Eyes

Are you kidding? To the best of my knowledge he’s an unrepentant leftist.


19 posted on 04/12/2008 3:48:06 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Who's worried about the Bolsheviks? They couldn't be worse than the Tsar!)
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To: don-o

I will never forget a black student I had who was smart, but rarely did any work. I took him aside one day and told him he could do something with his life if he tried (at the time he was enamored with the gansta culture). I told him he was smart. Know what he said back to me? “I don’t WANT to be smart.” That sums it up for a lot of these kids. It’s not cool to be smart. It’s cool to have street cred and be tough and uneducated. And it’s cool to make babies you have no intention of supporting. And I guess it’s then cool to blame everyone else for your failure.
susie


20 posted on 04/12/2008 3:51:04 PM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: Mrs Zip

ping


21 posted on 04/12/2008 4:00:14 PM PDT by zip (((Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough become truth to 48% of all Americans (NRA)))))
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To: Kenny Bunk

It is OK to remind those here today that they had nothing to do with where they were born.......but as it turned out, God has been good to them by having them born in this Country.....now go and show God you are thankful!!!!!.....

(And as you go, please don’t complain to me again about being in this Country)....


22 posted on 04/12/2008 4:02:53 PM PDT by Ecliptic
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To: freerepublic_or_die
When Larry King asked him whether he supported Obama, he bristled: “Do you ask white people this question? … I want to know why this fellow especially is brought up in such a special way. How many Americans in the media really take him seriously, or do they look at him like some prize brown baby?”

Cosby nails Larry King and the MSM

23 posted on 04/12/2008 4:08:30 PM PDT by Popman
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To: freerepublic_or_die

Introspection is painful but necessary.

Blacks in this country need to try to understand why they are failing to achieve more. They would do well to listen to Dr. Cosby and quit dismissing him as an “Uncle Tom” sellout.

There are many that have found their way out of poor and violent circumstances. As an engineer, I have worked with a few excellent black engineers during my career.Being the curious (many would say nosy) person that I am, I have simply asked them how they managed to achieve what they had.

Without exception they told me:

1) They had never been told “It’s a white man’s world and you’ll never make it”.

2) They were always told that they could succeed through education and hard work. That their destiny was theirs to create.

3) Their parents expected them to do their homework and get good grades. In other words, they were expected to achieve.

Somehow, the values that these parents instilled in these guys are eschewed by the majority in the black community.

Until they get back to these basics, I think there is little hope.

Do a little research on historic black literacy rates.
It’s pretty damn depressing. Things are NOT getting better from generation to generation.


24 posted on 04/12/2008 4:22:24 PM PDT by EEDUDE
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To: alrea
If attitude is a critical determinant of results, what does an attitude of blame and anger bring about?

The great eight hundred pound question mark that Black people like the author cannot address asks why Blacks who do not embrace the "Black culture" including hip-hop and the entitlement mentality of the victim posture, such as recent arrivals from Black Africa and the Caribbean, do as well as most anyone else in this "racist" nation of ours.

25 posted on 04/12/2008 4:23:30 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: AuntB

Our friend from Uganda describes the same thing. I personally think it has to do with the Protestant Work Ethic. Christianity teaches people to take personal responsibility, to pick up their mats and walk. It teaches one to work, to create and build. Sloth is a sin.

I have not developed my thesis deeply, but Christianity is the foundational building block of Western Civilization.


26 posted on 04/12/2008 4:24:26 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: freerepublic_or_die
They lost when they made it an either/or conflict. Failing to win an unnecessary contest the only alternative was separatism and victimology.
27 posted on 04/12/2008 4:26:20 PM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: B4Ranch
With enough diversity there's no place to go back to but here.

BTW, an old American naming practice is to just pick a new name for yourself ~ one that sounds good to "the man" and brings money your way.

Picking out a name that just sounds good to your family or the neighbors is usually not a wise idea.

28 posted on 04/12/2008 4:29:31 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Vince Ferrer
This is encouraging. He used to be vilified for saying the same thing only a few years ago. I hope it has some effect.

I remember him doing a tour saying this in 2005, and then he got hit with a sexual harassment charge and we didn't hear from him for a while. At the time I thought the timing was interesting, and thought somebody decided to dig up a woman willing to do an Anita Hill on Cosby

29 posted on 04/12/2008 4:33:26 PM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: don-o
By race what are the crime statistics for this town? ...just curious
30 posted on 04/12/2008 4:41:19 PM PDT by pointsal
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To: brytlea

I don’t buy that your student was really that bright. I knew plenty of kids who had tricks enough up their sleeves to impress me, and who, as part of their act ‘threw it away’ or rejected it in dramatic fashion in order to be the James Dean of my class.

But it was specious. Upon further inspection I realized that their schtick was to impress me at odd intervals and in new ways, but that they didn’t have the goods. And they knew they didn’t have the goods. The trick is to keep me from figuring it out.

The kids with the goods almost always used it. And when they chose not to, it was never in such a dramatic fashion. They always failed to use it by getting distracted or misguided internally, but they never got on stage and gave a great speech about how ganstas don’t need smarts and tossed their smarts in a trash bin.

It makes for a good story but not much else.


31 posted on 04/12/2008 4:41:52 PM PDT by kbingham
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To: Kenny Bunk
“I do not for one second excuse or pardon the cruelty of slavery as practiced in Africa and moved to the New World. I pray for the tortured souls who lost their lives on the way across the Atlantic.
But, is it permissible to ask African-Americans what they think would have become of them if they had NOT been brought here? Do they ever think of the African Kingdoms’ responsibilities in the whole slavery matter? Knowing what we now know of Africa, would they return? Would they retire there? Just wondering.”

I read a story once of what the world would have been Ike with out the U.S. Martin Luther King as it turned out lived to a ripe old age and died at home. In a mud hut wearing a grass skirt.

32 posted on 04/12/2008 4:47:55 PM PDT by BigCinBigD (")
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To: pointsal

I wouldn’t know -


33 posted on 04/12/2008 4:47:58 PM PDT by don-o (My son, Ben, reports to Parris Island on June 30.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
I know that Bill Cosby thinks this is a much more racist society than I think it is. I know he also thinks that AIDS was a government plot. He says he's tired of losing to white people.

You know what? I'm good with him anyway. More successful black people in our country is good for all of us. So, have strong families, tightly knit communities, and thriving businesses. Hate me if you want to. Do as little business with "outsiders" as you wish.

But be successful.

34 posted on 04/12/2008 4:48:57 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: freerepublic_or_die
From the article, "When political strategists argue that the Republican Party is missing a huge chance to court the black community, they are thinking of this mostly male bloc—the old guy in the barbershop, the grizzled Pop Warner coach, the retired Vietnam vet, the drunk uncle at the family reunion. He votes Democratic, not out of any love for abortion rights or progressive taxation, but because he feels—in fact, he knows—that the modern-day GOP draws on the support of people who hate him. This is the audience that flocks to Cosby: culturally conservative black Americans who are convinced that integration, and to some extent the entire liberal dream, robbed them of their natural defenses."

I really hope what I underlined is not a true belief.

35 posted on 04/12/2008 4:54:54 PM PDT by Dust in the Wind (Fund A Red Meat Eatery Regularly)
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To: kbingham

In the 60’s Bill Cosby did at least as much for civil rights as Martin Luther King. His humor was cleary about life in a poor black neighborhood, but it transcended race. Everyone could see their family, their neighborhoods in his stories, and that made whites see black people as essentially the same as themselves.
Then the race pimps got involved, and brought us to where we are today.
Cosby seems to be trying to repair that damage. I pray he succeeds.


36 posted on 04/12/2008 4:56:56 PM PDT by Glenmore
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To: Dianna
I know he also thinks that AIDS was a government plot.
Thinks!!?? He's said so quite unequivocally, but has since backtracked.
37 posted on 04/12/2008 4:57:36 PM PDT by freerepublic_or_die (Words to live by: (Nathan Hale) I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.)
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To: stainlessbanner

The guy is a muitimillionaire curtisey(sp) of white people. He hasn’t lost a thing. These ungrateful pukes are arrogant and self-centered. They make me sick.


38 posted on 04/12/2008 4:59:52 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: brytlea
It's not cool to be smart.

When we think about the really bad environments many kids are born into, we can somewhat understand their negative attitudes. They would be/are verbally and maybe physically abused if they choose to be good students. IOW, they don't fit in...they're not accepted.

A lot of the parents of these children need to wise up first, it seems to me.

39 posted on 04/12/2008 5:02:37 PM PDT by IIntense (w)
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To: Doe Eyes

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if a decent black man ran? Someone who was moral, worked hard, was patriotic, supported our military, was fiscally conservative? The time has come!!


40 posted on 04/12/2008 6:14:55 PM PDT by Marie2 (I used to be disgusted. . .now I try to be amused.)
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To: IIntense

No, I’m sorry I can’t understand it. That’s the most beautiful thing about living in the USA, you can rise above your circumstance. My parents, who both had alcoholic fathers, could’ve just said “oh well, my father’s a worthless POS, so I’ll never amount to anything because I had such a tramatic childhood”. No, they rose above their circumstance living in poverty and now have the most gorgeous piece of heaven in N. CA and have a very close knit family who all love one another. They committed to each other they would never allow alcohol to ruin what they worked so hard for. Nothing like what they had growing up. So, no, I don’t understand their negative attitude. Your life is what you make it. We live in a land of opportunity to all who want to work for it. And I think therein lies the problem, some don’t want to work for it.


41 posted on 04/12/2008 6:52:21 PM PDT by Not just another dumb blonde
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To: Kenny Bunk
"But, is it permissible to ask African-Americans what they think would have become of them if they had NOT been brought here? Do they ever think of the African Kingdoms' responsibilities in the whole slavery matter? Knowing what we now know of Africa, would they return? Would they retire there? Just wondering. "

Perhaps the appropriate reparation for those desirous of such would be a gov't funded one way plane ticket and a correspondence course in the new language.

42 posted on 04/12/2008 7:08:08 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president!)
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To: bboop

“I personally think it has to do with the Protestant Work Ethic.”

I can’t disagree with that.


43 posted on 04/12/2008 8:32:39 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: Kenny Bunk
Slaves were brought to America from many different places in Africa. The slaves who were born in America were probably born in nearly all cases to people who would have never met if they had not suffered the misfortune of being enslaved and taken to America. In addition, a large proportion of present-day African Americans have some ancestors who were living in Europe or North America in 1492.

In other words, most African Americans would never have been born except for their ancestors' misfortune of being enslaved.

The same applies to most other Americans, except for first-generation immigrants or Native Americans...they wouldn't exist if their ancestors had stayed in their original homelands.

44 posted on 04/12/2008 8:35:59 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: freerepublic_or_die

bump for later


45 posted on 04/12/2008 8:55:05 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Not just another dumb blonde
I'm sincerely sorry for your parents' past sufferings.

In my post I was referring mainly to the black children reared in ghettos where warring gangs, drive-by shootings, frequent murders, drugs, etc. hardly inspire a desire for education. Those who want to learn are accused of "acting white".

Many of these kids probably come from generations of famililies existing on welfare.

Maybe I sound like a bleeding-heart liberal but I'm far from that. Crime deserves punishment, and in some cases, parents should be jailed along with their child.

46 posted on 04/12/2008 9:07:48 PM PDT by IIntense (w)
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To: bboop

“Protestant work ethic” is a factor, so is the Catholic tradition of family.

Most blacks are Babtist. I really feel a lack of family values is the problem. Catholic traditions really emphasize the traditional family, and parental obligations such as ensuring children are educated, and marry well are the norm among practicing Catholics.

As an adult my formation in the church has emphasized that my first apostalate is my family. With my husband being first. I always find myself wishing that those teaching be shared in the black community. I lived these neighborhoods for a time as a kid. It is a very negative environment. You really can’t blame them if that is all they know.

http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?se=16&ca=45&te=10&id=12737


47 posted on 04/13/2008 5:53:43 AM PDT by mgist
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To: brytlea
And it’s cool to make babies you have no intention of supporting.

This one I just can't figure. Your wages are garnished by the state.

This is like buying houses you can't live in. No wonder so many go to jail. (It is quite a bit cheaper and the food is free).

48 posted on 04/13/2008 8:35:24 AM PDT by alrea
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To: freerepublic_or_die

It isn’t a matter of losing to the white man, it’s more of a failure to acknowledge and live up to the highest human values and traditions which are not exclusive to color, race nor gender. It’s too bad that the Jacksons and Sharptons and others who have and enjoy such influence don’t teach these simple truths instead of preaching divisiveness and racial hatred. We would all be so much better for it.


49 posted on 04/13/2008 8:51:26 AM PDT by GBA ( God Bless America!)
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To: Dust in the Wind
he feels—in fact, he knows—that the modern-day GOP draws on the support of people who hate him.

I really hope what I underlined is not a true belief.

To leverage political influence for Democrats this idea has been suggested and stated for several decades by the Democratic Party and hence much of the media. There is no doubt that many black people believe this no matter how bad the Democratic Party performs.

Many people in our country hear both directly and indirectly a constant suggestion that the GOP is the home of KKK types or that rich white people hate black people(unless they are Democrat). It is the best way the Democtratic Party can influence a voting block. It is very easy to anger people and thus motivate them to stay on this plantation. It has worked for at least 40 years.

50 posted on 04/13/2008 8:55:04 AM PDT by alrea
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