Posted on 05/29/2008 5:34:40 PM PDT by SandRat
FORT HUACHUCA — A car dealership with branches in Sierra Vista, Huachuca City and Tucson has been placed off-limits to thousands of active-duty service members assigned to this Southern Arizona Army post.
Ideal Automotive Group, including the company's business in Tucson known as Wildcat Mitsubishi, was informed in a May 20 letter by the fort's leadership that it is being placed off-limits.
Fort Huachuca spokeswoman Tanja Linton said, “Today (Wednesday) we got notification that Ideal Automotive Group received the letter from the garrison commander (Col. Melissa Sturgeon) notifying them they had been placed off-limits to military service members.”
Making the e-mail rounds off post Wednesday was a May 20 memorandum with the subject “Off-Limits Order,” signed by Maj. Gen. John Custer, commander of Fort Huachuca and the Army Intelligence Center, in which he said the three Ideal facilities could not be used by active-duty military personnel.
Custer’s order was to be relayed to every active-duty soldier, sailor, airman and Marine who are attached to Fort Huachuca.
“Leaders will ensure all their subordinates understand this order, and new personnel will be issued this order as part of their in-processing,” the general’s memo states.
Beau Johnston, Ideal’s general manager, said the company’s problems come about for trying to put people in cars who may not have the best credit.
Although he didn’t immediately know how much of the company’s business is from the military, Johnston said “we try to help soldiers,” some of whom come to Ideal as a last resort in trying to buy a vehicle.
The problem is sometimes customers, and that includes nonmilitary, have less than good credit, and when it is discovered, “they already have been put in a car,” he said.
That then means either a person cannot have the vehicle under a contract that was initially written or must come up with additional money for a down payment, Johnston said.
But all customers are told if they have signed a contract for a certain interest rate and it comes back from a financial company, like a bank, at a higher rate, they can walk away from the contract, he said.
What the company is now doing is making sure all the paperwork is completed before putting a person in a car so there are no surprises, Johnston said.
And, to ensure everyone understands what is happening, voice and video recordings of transactions are being done, he added.
Custer said he placed the business off-limits under an Army regulation because, “sufficient cause indicates these establishments are adversely affecting the health, safety, morals, welfare, morale and discipline of the Fort Huachuca Armed Forces personnel.” He also noted active-duty military personnel who violate his order can be subject to “negative administrative or personnel actions” for violating a lawful order.
In response to a number of written questions submitted by the Herald/Review, the fort’s judge advocate office said the decision was part of a process involving the local Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board.
The board received information from a number of sources regarding consumer practices of Ideal Automotive Group, which led the business to be informed of the board’s findings and the post’s intent to place the business off-limits.
Before that happened, Ideal Automotive Group representatives appeared before the board in March.
Johnston said when it comes to the off-limits designation, Ideal officials tried to explain their business practices to fort officials. They are disappointed that active-duty military personnel can’t currently trade with them.
Johnston added Ideal wasn’t provided with the names of those individuals who complained and what the issues were so he and others at the company could have looked at records to present a fuller case from their side to the disciplinary board.
He expressed hope that in the future the off-limits restriction will be lifted.
After hearing the business’s side and after considering all evidence, the “board voted to have Ideal Automotive Group placed off-limits,” the response to the Herald/Review’s questions stated.
The action only applies to active-duty military service members, who “are prohibited from entering establishments or areas declared off-limits,” the response said, adding that family members are not part of the restriction, but that service members “are encouraged to share this information (with) their family members.”
Although there is no specific time as to how long a business can be placed off-limits, it remains so until the board decides, with concurrence of the post’s leadership, to lift the restriction.
In his memo, Custer stated: “This order will be reviewed every 90 days and remains in effect indefinitely until officially rescinded by this headquarters.”
In response to a Herald/Review question, the judge advocate office noted, “A person whose establishment has been declared off-limits may petition the president of the board to remove the off-limits restriction. The petition must be in writing and include a detailed report of action taken to eliminate the condition or situation that caused imposition of the restriction.”
The board president can order an investigation to determine if corrective action has been taken and then recommend removal or continuation of the off-limits restriction.
It has been a long process involving the Ideal decision, according to responses to Herald/Review questions.
“The business practices of Ideal Automotive Group were reviewed by AFDCB (Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board) in 2004, but the board determined that no action was necessary at that time,” the response stated.
The board did not meet from 2004 until January 2008 and the board’s decision was based on “Ideal’s situation from January 2008 until April 2008.”
The board’s investigation “determined that there were numerous soldier complaints filed with Army Community Service and the Better Business Bureau,” according to the response, without providing the exact number or types of complaints.
The Better Business Bureau was not immediately available for comment.
According to a BBB Web site, Ideal Automotive Group’s facility in Sierra Vista had 14 complaints filed in the past three years.
The complaints covered contract, billing or collection, sales practices, repair, service, customer and product issues.
The majority of the complaints were addressed by the company, bbb.org said, with some resolution accepted by customers.
Only one, concerning a product issue, is currently unresolved, because the company has failed to resolve it through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.
Johnston noted Ideal is not a member of the BBB but has entered into arbitration through the organization, paying $300 for each case.
The last known time the fort took this level of action was in the early 1980s, when a different Sierra Vista car dealership was placed off-limits by the post’s leadership.
Another Tucson business is currently off-limits to fort military personnel. Club Z, also known as Club Envy, was restricted to active-duty military following an altercation between a post soldier and civilian, which ended up with the civilian following a vehicle that carried soldiers in it, firing at it, killing one Iraq-bound soldier and injuring another. According to Tucson police reports, the shooter has yet to be apprehended.
Herald/Review senior reporter Bill Hess can be reached at 515-4615 or by e-mail at bill.hess@svherald.com.
Most of these young troops buy cars that the insurance payments equal the car payments every month. Imagine that dilemma?
Good I hope the guy folds.
Experienced car buyers know that when you hear a dealer use the phrase “Put in a car” or “Put you in a car” that you should head for the exit immediately.
Smart buyers do not get “put into” anything. Dealers know this. The ones that “put “ people in cars instead of sell them cars make a living by screwing over the neophyte buyers who don’t know any better.
I am amazed that the dealer is so stupid as admit that they “put” anyone is a car.
Sleazy bastards ripping off our military personnel. That’s just downright low.
Bill Heard Chevrolet was doing this crap in Nashville and was run out of town.
Debt Collectors and scum car dealers know that a call to a Sgt on a defaulted loan can put a soldier in one hell of a bind.
Tommy this and Tommy that indeed.
12 years in the Navy and auto dealerships and life insurance parasites stood at the ready outside of every Navy base I have ever been to. Scum ... sucking the scant resources out of unsuspecting young sailors that were stationed there.
San Diego, Norfolk (the real name)Charleston, Philly (if the world needed an enema this would be the place of insertion) Groton, Bremerton, Long beach ..... all were the same. Check into a command and have a string of parasites following with hands extended.
BZ for this commander that exercised some well thought orders.
These parasites are the worst of the worst .... very similar to
...
...
...
...
Democrats
Democrats!
Sucking the life out of the weak and ignorant!
I remember buying my first car when I was in the Navy...the car cost me $3600 and my insurance was $1200 a year in 1977...20 year old E3 with no traffic violations!
I scrimped and saved to buy that car, and when I got the loan approved and went to get the insurance, I nearly fell on the floor.
That little MG Midget took a pound of flesh out of me, too...
I get to see that almost every day. Sometimes the local squadron (Idaho Air Nat'l Guard at Gowen Field) is landing right when I drive home, and my route takes me right past the end of the runway and under the approach pattern. Oh, and the place I work backs up to the runway (sometimes we sit by the fence during lunch and watch the air traffic). Plus, they occasionally fly over my neighborhood. :^)
He couldn't -- That situation was mandated by Congress. It was done primarily because of the 'redlining' that was practiced years ago.
I never drove a new car home before signing a contract with the exact terms of financing. It sounds as if this dealer used this as a ploy to get military people to pay higher interest rates. A credit check takes only fifteen minutes unless you want to stall it until after the person thinks he bought the car.
And when the general public hears about this order, I’m sure many will refuse to do business with them also. Snakes like this need to be run out of business.
Good for Custer.
He's looking out for the best interest of his troops.
I’m surprised no has mentioned the JAG office yet. They would be happy to read over any car sales contract, especially the fine print, and advise you, before you sign it. They may also have a list of places to avoid or not recommend.
There were several car dealerships in the Norfolk, VA area who were ripping sailors off for really high interest rates of up to 33% (which was at that time legal in VA)
But I have a problem with the military acting as a nanny. Sailors get their financial training and you always have the option of not signing that contract. I think that the off-limit orders should apply to dangerous or drug filled strip joints before something like this.
Yes, I know what you mean. I live in Sierra Vista. Moved here from Ca a year ago. I was driving on 92 and I heard a loud noise. It was two jets flying in for a landing at the fort scared the crap out of me and you are right they are nearly powerline altitude awesome to see.
Regarding the black listing: A soldier threated to get our salon black listed if we did not give her money back for a tanning package. Reason? she did not like the beds. My boss gave her the money. That is the only negative I have seen since living here. Most of my clients are soldiers, border patrol cops.
Totally agreed. If the military has enough reason to make an order like this it sounds like there would be more than enough to make a case for investigation with the AG.
A few years back I lived in Denver, and my home was in the flight path for the fly-bys they used to do over Mile High. Saw lots of fighter jets and such. But, the best was the last time...
Imagine the amazement at seeing the stealth come over your house - completely engulf it in a shadow, and be able to run from one side of the house, to the other side and STILL be under the plane! That thing was HUGE, and flying low and slow! Can’t imagine what that must look like to our enemies... ;)
Front page above the fold. I doubt that there's anyone in town now who hasn't heard about this. Serves the guy right...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.