Catholic Ping
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Posted on 07/03/2008 7:34:00 AM PDT by NYer
Douglas Kmiec is the kind of Catholic voter the GOP usually doesn't have to think twice about. The Pepperdine law professor and former Reagan Justice Department lawyer (Samuel Alito was an office mate) attends Mass each morning. He has actively opposed abortion for most of his adult life, working with crisis pregnancy centers to persuade women not to undergo the procedure. He is a member of the conservative Federalist Society and occasionally sends a contribution to Focus on the Family.
He is also a vocal supporter of Barack Obama. Kmiec made waves in the Catholic world in late March when he endorsed the Democratic candidate. But Kmiec insists that while he still considers himself a Republican, his choice is clear this election year. "I have grave moral doubts about the war, serious doubts about the economic course Republicans have followed over the last seven years, and believe that immigration reforms won't come about by Republican hands," he says. "Senator McCain would not be the strongest advocate for the balance of things that I care about."
A new Time poll of Catholic voters reveals that Kmiec is part of a broader pattern. Although Obama was thought to have a "Catholic problem" during the Democratic primaries, in which Hillary Clinton won a majority of Catholic votes, he has pulled even with John McCain among that constituency—Obama now polls 44% to his GOP opponent's 45%.
There are 47 million Catholic voters, and while they are too numerous and varied to speak of as a monolithic Catholic bloc, they have long been a kind of holy grail for presidential candidates.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
If this fellow supports Mr. Obama, he is committing a mortal sin...because Mr. Obama believes deeply in abortion. In the Roman Catholic faith, committing an abortion, having an abortion or abetting in an abortion is a mortal sin.
If he votes for Mr. Obama, he had better get to confession quickly.
Attending Mass doesn’t cut it. Actually believing and putting that belief into practice does. His support of this abortionist, partial-birth abortionist, and botched-abortion-baby-killer negates all of his other empty gestures.
Yeah, like Rev. Pfleger. Give me a break.
This "bottom-up, personal responsibility" message, as he describes it, appeals to Kmiec, allowing him to be not just a McCain skeptic but also an Obama supporter. That decision has not come without a cost—this spring Kmiec was denied Communion by a priest who denounced his endorsement of Obama.
A priest with the guts to defend the faith! Amen!
"but what about a candidate like Obama who is not pro-abortion, but of the view that the civil law best leaves this question to the mother in consultation with their own clergyman and doctor?"
Put on your flame-retardant suits, that was 4 alarm flame bait!
Whoever that priest is, I’d enjoy shaking his hand and buying him a beer! God bless him.
Kmiec is simply proof that no one is perfect. (sigh)
You have a serious problem.
Your sentiments are as pathetic as your grammar.
Well I obviously support McCain over Obama, but I don’t think it’s fair to accuse this guy of committing a sin just by voting for a politician who commits a sin. Our system only gives us two choices every election and neither of them is almost ever anywhere even CLOSE to perfect. If moral voters refused to vote for any candidate who supports anything bad we’d all have to stay home.
I guess I’m the opposite of this guy. On balance I find McCain a better choice and abortion is one of the biggest reasons why. But, it’s still true that by voting for McCain I will be voting for somebody who supports some things I don’t support at all. I don’t think that means I’ve changed my opinion about them, just that I’m being practical and picking the choice I think is overall the better of the two.
Who was the priest and where? Amen! A priest with courage!!! This is why the battling the evil of abortion is so hard! Kmeic should say 50 million Our Fathers for the 50 million dead children who have died because of the evil of abortion! God have mercy on this country and it’s people!
Still considers himself a Christian, too.
Grow up! We are talking about a serious subject here.People who call themselves Christian and then proceed to support evil and that’s your remark?
>>I’ll make up my own mind rather than follow an Nazi based in Rome.<<
You’re from the AP aren’t you?
It’s the seriousness of the sin! How long can Christians vote for politicians who support the evil of abortion and let us not forget homosexuality agenda of the democratic party. I do believe there will be a drastic change in being allies with Israel if Obama wins as well. But if Christians can’t go against candidates who support and promote abortion,in all stages and more,then we are nothing more than pagans. 50 million dead children,14 million African American children,yea this is serious sin. Our Savior came from the womb,you would think it would be sacred. But now it is used as a death chamber,but Jesus brought eternal life to all of us through the womb of Mary.
Membership in the Hitler youth was mandatory. See if this is sufficent authority to debunk your slander: http://bambenek.blogspot.com/2005/04/jews-come-out-to-defend-pope-benedict.html
Such a jerk you are.
Doug Kmiec describes himself as a Mass attending Catholic that believes that he is in communion with the Church. He is publicly supporting a candidate that will do everything it takes to ensure abortion on demand, partial-birth abortion, and the killing of botched abortion babies. This would be formal cooperation in an intrinsic evil, a grave offense. The Church, he supposedly is a member of, attaches the penalty of excommunication for this formal cooperation in the sin of abortion.
Only if you’re truly repentant can you “go to confession quickly” and be forgiven. Something isn’t getting through to this fella no matter how many Masses he attends. I’m thinking that because of his hands on pro-life work, he somehow thinks this gets him off the hook for his voting for a pro-death candidate. Accusing somebody of self-righteousness is a serious charge. But is this person hust another cafeteria Catholic?
Amazing how we can rationalize any of our sticking points (sin) especially when we have someone who has a bullhorn and shouts it in your ear often and loud enough for you to have heard it. (Our Pope) No ambiguity, no gray areas, no confusion here if you stick with the holy father. Until Satan enters the picture and clouds your mind with great rhetorical flourish. Much like some politicians obviously can.
Believe me, I know. I’m a sinner too, and listen to that other voice in my soul. It would just be so much better if people who have a lot of influence like the gentleman in the story understood how much responsiblity (to the Lord) for that influence he has and how much it really affects people around him who respect him. Very confusing to a fellow Catholic who hears him and thinks that he must think the pope is whacked to impugn guilt to him by his vote for someone who pro death. It will influence that person to think the same erroneous thing.
I really wish I understood the thinking process behind the getting to this conclusion. You can’t really say that he was badly catechized if he’s as seemingly faithful as his daily Mass attendance and other works would indicate.
Who should a President serve the Pope or the people who elect him?
| 1: | CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271 (618 bytes ) preview document matches 1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm |
97%  |
| 2: | CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272 (580 bytes ) preview document matches 2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm |
96% |
| 3: | CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322 (290 bytes ) preview document matches 2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3), URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm |
96% |
| 4: | CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274 (554 bytes ) preview document matches gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm |
The priest made it very clear that in his opinion, Obama would be an out of the quesition chose for any Catholic voter.
http://crankycon.politicalbear.com/2008/06/17/memo-to-doug-kmiec-shuuuuuuuut-uuuuuuuuuuuup/
Great to hear that.
New Report Indicates Voters Most Interested in Barack Obama’s Position on Abortion
Deal Hudson: Obama and Infanticide?
Ad asks Obama: ‘If fatherhood begins at conception, when does life begin?’
Embryonic stem-cell research immoral, unnecessary, bishops say
Catholics should not vote for Obama
Catholic Caucus: It is a sin to vote/support Obama/DNC [abortion]
More Catholics leaning towards Democrats, poll reports (really not Catholics)
The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)
Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion....
NARAL Catholics Line Up for Obama
Editorial: Disagreeing with Doug Kmiec One More Time
State-Funded Embryo Research "Makes Taxpayers Complicit in Killing", say Bishops
McCain Meets Privately with Fr. Pavone - Says Constitutional Right to Life Applies to Unborn
Faithful Citizenship: “Catholic Vote” is very sought after
Has Obama dissolved his Catholic advisory council?
Commentary: Faithful Citizenship and the Formed Conscience
Catholic League: Where's Obama's 'Catholic Advisory Council'? [Not to be found!]
Right-wing Christians beginning to lean left (Misleading headline)
US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]
Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?
DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election
EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign
The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)
Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’
How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question
Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers
McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)
Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops
Your prior statement was false. When are you going to ‘fess up to that? Second, what the #@$%^ does this latest comment mean? Really, what kind of knuckle dragger are you? It’s slander after slander from you. Name one politician, either party, any time in our history, who can be said to have “sevred the Pope.” P.S. Just being a Catholic doesn’t count.
Surely you don’t call youself a Christian, what with your ignorant and hateful views.
Still waiting for the apology on the Nazi thing.
You don’t have to convince me... I’ve never voted for a politician who supported abortion and I never will. :-) But, I just don’t think with the way our government is set up you can necessarily assume voters agree with every position of a politician. Some voters don’t even get a choice. In some states like California, neither candidate is pro-life, so a pro-life person either has to pick one of them or stay home. You have to take the best you can get sometimes. I don’t know what I’ll do if McCain picks a pro-abortion VP to be honest with you. I sure hope it doesn’t come to that but whether I can bring myself to vote for a ticket like that or not, I still wouldn’t call anybody who finds it in them to vote for them anyway a sinner.
There was an article here the other day about Baptists doing the same, and let’s not even talk about the NEA.
You called the Pope a Nazi. What would bring that on? What does it have to do with child abuse?
So you’re going to vote for Obama because the Pope is a Nazi? I’m I understanding you correctly?
Unless he’s had a serious head injury lately, he was never a Republican and was a subversive in the conservative organizations mentioned. Or he’s just an idiot of the most massive caliber.
It’s not a question of being fair. It is a matter of faith.
Some things are always wrong. Abortion is one of them, according to the Roman Catholic faith.
No, no. Not millions. BILLIONS. A tiny minority of priests, abetted by some bad actor Bishops. Paying the money now isn’t to cover it up. These are open agreements to settle pending litigation. A great shame on the Church, but you’re not really suggesting that remaining a Catholic means one “supports child abuse,” are you? I’m beginning to think you’re pulling our legs. No one is this obtuse.
***If he votes for Mr. Obama, he had better get to confession quickly.***
Please allow me to expand on your statement for the edification of anyone who doesn’t understand the rules of Confession. He had better get to confession quickly, and HAVE TRUE REPENTANCE FOR HIS SIN, or his Confession is worthless.
You are exactly correct! If you do not repent, it doesn’t count.
Thanks. -Rex
“Douglas Kmiec is the kind of Catholic voter...”
Who has abandoned his Catholicism.
Doug Kmiec is an apostate.
All those McCain haters have wrought this...and the country will suffer.
Excellent link! Thanks. Francis Beckwith has it right on target:
“The truth is that Doug Kmiec does not have a conceptual grasp of what the prolife position actually is. It is not about “reducing the number of abortions,” though that is certainly a consequence that all prolifers should welcome. Rather, the prolife position is the moral and political belief that all members of the human community are intrinsically valuable and thus are entitled to protection by the state.”
One might consider that the abortion issue is like a comet that comes back only every 4 years during Presidential elections and is absent in all interim elections slackens interest.
This issue does not grab Catholics like it used to. Choice is now included in the GOP big tent. Guiliani was once the leading contender and GOP governors are not challenged.
Catholics are also interested in economic family issues like jobs, health care and education costs. On social issues, helping the poor brings more recruits at Church than abortion clinic protests.
The abortion issue has to have a life span in politics greater than a Presidential election or fade as a wedge issue.
They were generally New Dealers. Even on this thread one can see Catholics are most interested in the abortion issue. Of course abortion is an abomination, but socialism is a larger abomination, tearing at the fabric of family which RESULTS in sexual atrocities like abortion, homosexuality, and the welfare state in general.
Socialism is the Catholic weak spot. This is how the Dems will exploit them.
This is one Catholic Conservative that is both a fiscal and a social conservative.
I am anti-abortion, support the war in the middle east, think taxes are way to high, see the need for people to get training/ education to get off welfare, and if they don't want that then kick them off. I am all in favor of the Second amendment and think that guns are not the problem, but one part of the solution, along with stiff sentences including the death penalty.
Here is the real kicker I teach at a public High school
This is not my experience. I believe this is coming to the forefront as it should have been from the beginning.
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