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McCain alarms base with abortion comment
Politico ^ | 8/14/2008 | Jonathan Martin

Posted on 08/14/2008 8:54:39 PM PDT by Alter Kaker

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To: Jo Nuvark; Das Outsider

Thanks for hanging with us as we all learn to interpret what you have correctly expressed.

Looks like most everybody who commented on this piece (most, not all) started out with a pre-disposed notion based on current social disposition instead of taking the time to assimilate the true meaning of the words.

If we’re to learn anything we’ve got to look for something deeper than a soundbite.

Thank you for challenging the masses and standing for what you believe.


201 posted on 08/15/2008 10:26:38 AM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Me... I'm ignorant but I do know this; God is our only hope!)
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To: wardaddy; Jo Nuvark; Das Outsider

How did you get that Jo doesn’t want to end abortion???

I think you misunderstood the point. I don’t believe it was the writer’s intention to leave abortion legal and kill babies, and I don’t think anyone else got that out of this post.

This is the first time I have read Jo Nuvark’s work, and I had to use my brain a minute, but Jo is dead on. The Supreme Court should have never been in the abortion business in the first place. America is about personal responsibility and that stretches to your own kids, too.

If we train our children we will change the world. If we let the government and the supreme court decide the education, direction and fate of our citizens, then we will fail. Unlike other nations, we were supposed to operate at the hands of a God-fearing citizenry.

That’s been hi-jacked. Maybe for good, but I think you are in the same side of the fight as the rest of the “fan club” you were talking about.

Looks like you agree in principle with Jo.

Sometimes we just have to switch the light on to see the path.


202 posted on 08/15/2008 10:38:08 AM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Me... I'm ignorant but I do know this; God is our only hope!)
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To: Gordon Greene; wardaddy; Das Outsider

[... The Supreme Court should have never been in the abortion business in the first place. America is about personal responsibility and that stretches to your own kids, too. If we train our children we will change the world.

IF WE TRAIN OUR CHILDREN WE WILL CHANGE THE WORLD!!!

If we let the government and the supreme court decide the education, direction and fate of our citizens, then we will fail. Unlike other nations, we were supposed to operate at the hands of a God-fearing citizenry. That’s been hi-jacked. Maybe for good, but I think you are in the same side of the fight as the rest of the “fan club” you were talking about...]

************************************

If that isn’t what I said, that’s exactly what I meant to say. LOL!

NEW TAGLINE FOR SOMEONE:
If we train our children we will change the world!

HGTV is correct. “Change the world. Start at home.”


203 posted on 08/15/2008 10:45:03 AM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: mnehrling

“That’s why it is just as important to deal with issues on the philosophical merits, to individuals, and not just legal merits.”

True. But there are people who equate law with morality. If it’s legal, they think it’s moral.


204 posted on 08/15/2008 11:04:27 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: Jo Nuvark

“This old ship won’t turn without a moral, Godly rudder. We won’t find that rudder in our courts or in our houses of Government. That moral rudder is in the houses of the people and cannot be legislated from us. So... we are without excuse.”

I agree with that much. At the same time, deceivers hide behind unjust law. Roe v. Wade was judicial legislation. It was incredibly unpopular at the time. 49 states classified abortion as a felony. The courts and the colleges have eroded our nation’s of right and wrong.

Since they got away with that, the courts reached further with Kelo.


205 posted on 08/15/2008 11:12:25 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: Alter Kaker

More proof of my assertion, posted in various threads on the “Republic” .....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I believe that McCain was picked by the leftist infested RNC to throw the election and marginalize the American right.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

McCain picking Liberman for Veep will prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.


206 posted on 08/15/2008 11:41:21 AM PDT by SecondAmendment (Restoring our Republic one Post at a Time)
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To: cpforlife.org

Thank you for the link. Will read. FRegards ....


207 posted on 08/15/2008 12:07:09 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: mngran2

McCain is throwing a lot of stuff out there to awaken voter interest and lead various groups to feel more sympathetic toward him. I’m sticking with him unless he actually picks a pro-abort VP.


208 posted on 08/15/2008 12:12:14 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: Alter Kaker

I remember W going on long walks with Tom Ridge back in 2000. At the end of he day, it was for nothing. Possibly the same this time around.


209 posted on 08/15/2008 12:41:06 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Like the Great Rumsfeld said, you have to fight with the resources you have.

Comparing MacCain to fighting with "the army you have," would have been as if Rumsfeld had said that we'd hired The Taliban to fight against Al-Qai'da.

MacCain is the consummate Trojan Elephant. If he becomes President, with their having co-opted the conservative movement, the victory of The Left will be close to completion.

210 posted on 08/15/2008 12:50:32 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Would you want your surgeon graduating at the bottom 1% of his class?)
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To: Jo Nuvark

Teach the American public about the Judeo-Christian value system. How the Declaration of Independence created by the Founding Fathers summarized the best of these values. That Senator McCain stands for this statement in it’s top level thinking:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...”

Many Americans call talking points assigned to political Representatives as ‘issues’. Political parties put themselves into camps based on issues. Keeping track of each candidates there set of ‘issues’ and if they match our own tastes is convoluting the very basic principles of the Judeo-Christian Value System. Politicians running for office often times prey on such ignorance to win elections. You don’t ignore the issues, you remind the American voter that all your positions on the ‘issues’ are based on the Declaration of Independence powerful and simple statement and you base your policy making on such as well. When a candidates running for office do this, then will leaders emerge and provide the wisdom-led governance Americans crave so desperately. Conservatives, stop acting like liberals being dragged into middle road positions on ‘issues’.


211 posted on 08/15/2008 1:06:28 PM PDT by iThinkBig
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To: Gordon Greene
I believe Roe should be overturned and abortion made as illegal as possible.

I'm 50 and saw this unfold.

Roe made folks think abortion was really ok and the number of abortions since then prove that.

It's not just a case of collapsed morality which although true is a result of Roe rather than causative.

A nation with at least some modicum of morality would not tolerate laws like Roe.

One day folks will look back and view us the way we view local burghers and the Nazis’s rise...”how did they let that happen?”

I agree Jo wants to end abortion but she prefers to leave government out of it but it's obvious they are already in it. That is what started it.

Roe must be overturned or diminished and hopefully hand in hand with a reestablishment of some basic morality at least about killing unborn babies.

212 posted on 08/15/2008 1:32:39 PM PDT by wardaddy ("Cause my grey hair just can't cover up my redneck.")
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To: E. Cartman

“Comparing MacCain to fighting with “the army you have,” would have been as if Rumsfeld had said that we’d hired The Taliban to fight against Al-Qai’da.”

[Trying to smile.]

It will be impossible to argue with you if McCain makes the wrong choice.


213 posted on 08/15/2008 1:49:15 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: cpforlife.org

McCain’s just giving this lip service. He already has a big enough problem with the base without creating another. I would be shocked if he went there.


214 posted on 08/15/2008 1:50:54 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Number nine, number nine, number nine . . .)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

No, I had no “kicked in the belly” allegations.

One 13 y/o did tell me her father threw her out the 2nd story window when she refused to abort. She was a sort of a typical teen, in the sense that she seemed given to exaggeration, so I am not sure whether that was the whole truth or not. However, as required, we reported it to CPS.


215 posted on 08/15/2008 2:20:58 PM PDT by Marie2 (Everything the left does has the effect and intent of destroying the traditional family.)
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To: Marie2
I'm glad you didn't have to go through anything quite that ugly. But I do know that some guys can get pretty callous when they find themselves trapped.
216 posted on 08/15/2008 2:30:11 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: jbarntt
Personally, I'm getting to the opinion Lieberman would be a good choice for veep.

PUKE
BARF
GAG

217 posted on 08/15/2008 2:45:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (BARACK OBAMA WILL SAVE US! HE HAS RISEN!!)
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To: Charles Henrickson
I give Romney the benefit of the doubt on the abortion issue.

Same here. Romney is the bare minimum that I'd accept for a VP on the liberal-conservative scale, though of course I'm not going to root for his selection. He did reach out to conservatives on abortion and even when he was pro-abortion, he still supported restrictions for it. He would still have to go a little ways to totally convince me, but at this point he's much better than the alternative.

But McCain needs a solid pro-life VP pick here, not only would he lose conservatives but the squishy middle won't vote for him anyway.

218 posted on 08/15/2008 2:49:11 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (BARACK OBAMA WILL SAVE US! HE HAS RISEN!!)
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To: jbarntt

Hey, why not just put freakin’ RATs in charge of everything?

I am having real problems believing many people posting here are annything other than Democrats.

You qualify. I hope the boss around here cleans the sludge soon.


219 posted on 08/15/2008 2:53:28 PM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Don’t know about you, but....FR needs a good enema.


220 posted on 08/15/2008 3:14:23 PM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: cpforlife.org

With all that is going on in the world, McCain might still win.

But if he picks a pro abortion running mate, it will be without my vote.


221 posted on 08/15/2008 3:29:08 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Alter Kaker

McLiberal ... the other Democrat. The GOP is dead.


222 posted on 08/15/2008 4:05:29 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (No mas Juan "Traitor Rat" McAmnesty)
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To: colorado tanker

I hope you are right CT, but I don’t trust McCain. He’s literally the lesser of two evils.

I didn’t like him the first time I heard his RINO BS looong ago. Now I’m close to not voting for him.

If he had any depth to his “Pro-Life” stance he would have made a statement that his VP had to at least share his position—lame as it is. He’s a PLINO - Pro-Life In Name Only.

At one point today I thought: why don’t Johnny and Barry just forgo the election and become Co-Presidents.


223 posted on 08/15/2008 4:19:04 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: wardaddy; Jo Nuvark; Das Outsider; All

I think the problem is not that we disagree, but in that the small amount of difference lies in something none of us can, at least immediately control. If Roe V Wade could be ripped out of history and the Supreme Court understood its true purpose, none of this would even matter. What does matter is that we vote in whomever is going to appoint the most strict Constitutionalist judges.

In the meantime, here we are... we know the Supreme Court should not be involved but they are. We can fight to change the future but we’re bound by the present.

On the other hand, we do have direct immediate control over ourselves and how we raise our children... it must not be overlooked what an important part this plays.

If we do nothing but scream from the mountaintops “Overturn Roe” but do nothing to change ourselves and our charge, then we have done little.

If we do nothing but raise our children and live right but are eventually enslaved by a more and more intrusive government, we have only saved ourselves and lost future generations.

So we have to fight on both fronts... it ain’t everybody’s cup of tea to fight the same way. God made us like that so we could each strengthen the others weakness.

The battle will only be won in the public eye if we all do what God has given us to do and take the time to encourage and uphold the other.

I’ve not seen a bad point out of either one of you concerning abortion... keep up the good work and lets save fight for the enemy.

I’m afraid we’re gonna need it.


224 posted on 08/15/2008 5:06:21 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Me... I'm ignorant but I do know this; God is our only hope!)
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To: iThinkBig

Yes! Teach truth. Don’t stop.
Repeat. Repeat. Then repeat again.

Ignorance is the weapon of tyranny.


225 posted on 08/15/2008 5:11:14 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: cpforlife.org
McCain was way down my list, too. Barry would be a disaster, so I'm supporting McCain and hoping for the best.

I think his present campaign staff is more on the ball and would understand the huge problem McCain would have. Right now the Republicans are more unified than the Dims, but that would change overnight if he double-crossed pro-lifers.

226 posted on 08/15/2008 5:37:52 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Number nine, number nine, number nine . . .)
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To: Alter Kaker

“McCain Alarms Base” is a headline that will never end.


227 posted on 08/15/2008 6:34:59 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Cowardice is forever!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist; indylindy
Don’t know about you, but....FR needs a good enema.

Well... Do you need a good enema?

228 posted on 08/15/2008 6:43:33 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP! It's gonna be a BIG one.)
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To: Das Outsider; Gordon Greene

FOUND THE ESPERANTO BOOK.

Our visitor was from Budapest, his name was Gabor Vigh.
He was Department Head for the Institute of Cultural
Relations. Dorottya u.8. Budapest 5. Hungary, Europe

He wrote the following to me in Esperanto...

Kara (Jo),

Mi skribas leteron al vi en Esperanto.
Hi esperors, ke vi homprenos gin. Se vi
lernas Esperantou diligente, vi niceos
leteron de mi el Hungario.

Dankon pro la bela vojago inter Los Angeles
and Santa Barbara. Hi veriam forgesos vin.
Cjis vevido. Via humpasa amiko.

Gabor Vigh

MY BEST GUESS TRANSLATION (???)

Dear Jo,

I write letter to you in Esperanto.
I hope you understand. If you study
Esperanto diligently, you can write
a letter to me in Hungary.

Thank you for taking me to Los Angeles
and to Santa Barbara. I will never
forget you.

To life. Your humble friend, Gabor Vigh


229 posted on 08/15/2008 8:37:22 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: mnehrling; Grunthor
Do me a favor, go back to the very first article on this and copy only the direct parenthetical quotes of McCain, not any of the editorialized comments- only direct quotes. Tell me if you saw only his quotes, never seeing the editorial comments, if you would write the same summary as the press did?

OK, here you go, straight from the Weekly Standard web-site itself:

"I think that the pro-life position is one of the important aspects or fundamentals of the Republican Party," McCain said. "And I also feel that--and I'm not trying to equivocate here--that Americans want us to work together. You know, Tom Ridge is one of the great leaders and he happens to be pro-choice. And I don't think that that would necessarily rule Tom Ridge out."

I think the answer to your question, all things considered, is yes, I would write the same summary as the author of this editorial, Stephen F. Hayes, did.

And by the way, this isn't the MSM, this is the Weekly Standard, a conservative web-site and magazine.
230 posted on 08/15/2008 9:13:48 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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To: indylindy; jbarntt
I am having real problems believing many people posting here are annything other than Democrats.

You qualify. I hope the boss around here cleans the sludge soon.


Ditto!

This is long overdue!
231 posted on 08/15/2008 9:28:00 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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To: Gordon Greene
On the other hand, we do have direct immediate control over ourselves and how we raise our children... it must not be overlooked what an important part this plays.

If we do nothing but scream from the mountaintops “Overturn Roe” but do nothing to change ourselves and our charge, then we have done little.


So you're suggesting that conservatives should focus more on hearth, home, and community instead of mealy-mouthed promises from cynical politicians? ;)

The battle will only be won in the public eye if we all do what God has given us to do and take the time to encourage and uphold the other.

The outcome is ultimately in the hands of the Lord himself. We cannot create Heaven on Earth, but, as you stated earlier, we can strengthen our bonds and influence where it really counts. A nation that, according to many polls, is seventy-five to eighty-five percent "Christian," which allows all of this has either been duped by pollsters or duped by persistent, progressive secularism. My money's with the latter.

I’ve not seen a bad point out of either one of you concerning abortion... keep up the good work and lets save fight for the enemy.

I’m afraid we’re gonna need it.


But just who is the enemy?
232 posted on 08/15/2008 10:34:49 PM PDT by Das Outsider
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To: Jo Nuvark
I believe many of the replies you've receieved are the result of misinterpretation, and the depth of your thought has been lost on many due to a superficial view of personal sin.

You are emphasizing the oft-neglected bottom-up front of the culture wars, while many focus on the top-down. All too often we are quick to slough off our morality as mere external positions that don't have as profound an effect on our personal lives as they might. Thus, it is easy merely to label ourselves "pro-life" and work for top-down legislation, while neglecting the other front.

I would contend that both are needed, and the the relationship between the quality of its leaders and the mores embraced by a society at large is a symbiotic one: we get the leaders we deserve. We all know that President Clinton's despicable actions in the Oval Office gained wider acceptability amongst our youth, who look to the actions of the leaders we elect as a weather vane of acceptability. Likewise, the character flaws - namely, minimizing or trivializing the value of human life as worthy of protection under the law - inherent in one who takes a pro-choice-on-abortion position disqualify him from office for the same reasons as one who is pro-choice-on-slavery.

Thoughts?

233 posted on 08/15/2008 10:41:33 PM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom; Jo Nuvark
I would contend that both are needed, and the the relationship between the quality of its leaders and the mores embraced by a society at large is a symbiotic one: we get the leaders we deserve.

Outsider Echo Syndrome? ;)

Joking aside, Lexinom has brought up some good points, and I think the top-down influence has more to do with celebrity, and our worship thereof, if even extended into the political realm. Trickle-down immorality is real, but what is that so?
234 posted on 08/15/2008 10:52:25 PM PDT by Das Outsider
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To: Das Outsider

*but why is that so?


235 posted on 08/15/2008 10:53:08 PM PDT by Das Outsider
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To: Lexinom; Das Outsider; Gordon Greene; semaj; NFHale; hocndoc; afnamvet; jbarntt; eddie willers; ...

I have no quarrel with your reasoning. And I accept
your extension of my premises regarding the influence
political leaders and star power personalities have
on our young.

Those who choose to follow, say, Brittany Spears could
be considered willful. But those who need a moral
baseline and choose a role model such as Bill Clinton
could be considered naive. In my opinion.

Your thoughtful comments are profoundly appreciated.
I’ve floated this balloon a few times, and this is the
first time I’ve received intelligent analytical feedback.

You are correct. If we are to shift this culture back
to it’s moral foundations, it must come from both the
family and from our leaders. However... never forget
the power of God. I’m praying for a revival in our
land. Are you?


236 posted on 08/16/2008 8:59:08 AM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Das Outsider; Gordon Greene; NFHale; Lexinom

[... The outcome is ultimately in the hands of the
Lord himself. We cannot create Heaven on Earth, but,
as you stated earlier, we can strengthen our bonds
and influence where it really counts. A nation that,
according to many polls, is 75% to 85% “Christian,”
- which allows all of this - has either been duped
by pollsters or duped by persistent, progressive
secularism. My money’s with the latter...]

Just thought this should be isolated and repeated.


237 posted on 08/16/2008 9:03:39 AM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: FFranco

238 posted on 08/16/2008 9:18:09 AM PDT by alicewonders (I'm a conservative, and I'm hated by the GOP & the Dems - I must be doing something right!)
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To: Jo Nuvark

You know Jo, I was thinking soaking in the tub last nite that indeed our collapsed sense of deceny and morality is a big problem but....

I fear our collective national stupidity and ignorance of issues and facts may be a larger culprit.

Have you seen the movie Idiocracy?


239 posted on 08/16/2008 10:37:49 AM PDT by wardaddy ("Cause my grey hair just can't cover up my redneck.")
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To: wardaddy

I had not heard of the movie “Idiocracy”.
But now that I’ve researched its premise,
I think I’d like to see it.

Rush Limbaugh says that ignorance is our
worst enemy. I agree.

We can change this if we start at home.
Government doesn’t want us thinking for
ourselves. That would not be good for
their big plans to control us.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll look for the
movie.

...Jo


240 posted on 08/16/2008 3:51:16 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: jbarntt
Being an originalist, I do not think the SCOTUS should be making moral decisions, that's what the liberal "living document" types do.

The job of the court is to look to the constitution, as written. They do not need any moral guidance, either from "evolving standards of decency", or the Bible. It ain't their job.

Since all Laws are legislated morality and the Founders made it abundantly clear the role morality plays in our government and its institutions; how can SCOTUS function without moral guidance?

241 posted on 08/16/2008 4:09:18 PM PDT by loboinok (Gun control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: Jo Nuvark

I like your profile page. Many of us are pretty uptight about McCain’s choice. Please bear that in mind.


242 posted on 08/16/2008 5:24:42 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: loboinok
“... all Laws are legislated morality ...”

True. Unfortunately, the oligarchs are seeking to legislate immorality from the bench.

” ... and the Founders made it abundantly clear the role morality plays in our government and its institutions ...”

And they wanted the actual legislators to be elected— vetted by the voter [and the senate to be appointed by the state legislators in the early days].

” ... how can SCOTUS function without moral guidance? ...”

They're taught moral relativism these days. Considering the Kelo decision, I think that moral relativism isn't working.

243 posted on 08/16/2008 5:30:01 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("The internet needs a gatekeeper," The Cackling Comeback Witch aka Hillary Rod-ham [Clinton])
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To: Das Outsider

“So you’re suggesting that conservatives should focus more on hearth, home, and community instead of mealy-mouthed promises from cynical politicians? ;)”

Just about two lines down I said, “So we have to fight on both fronts... it ain’t everybody’s cup of tea to fight the same way. God made us like that so we could each strengthen the others weakness.”

It’s all about balance and finding your voice and your place. All different Christians have all different callings, as many callings as there are personalities.
And, yes... I agree with you that we cannot trust mealy-mouthed politicians.

“The outcome is ultimately in the hands of the Lord himself. We cannot create Heaven on Earth, but, as you stated earlier, we can strengthen our bonds and influence where it really counts. A nation that, according to many polls, is seventy-five to eighty-five percent “Christian,” which allows all of this has either been duped by pollsters or duped by persistent, progressive secularism. My money’s with the latter.”

I couldn’t agree more. The battle is the Lord’s, but not to the point we just hunker and wait. Moses didn’t gauge public opinion or even wait for one man to agree. We have God’s word as our guide and the added blessing of like-minded Christian conservatives. We disagree seldom on the major moral questions unless it’s to pic a nit.

Enemy in the general sense... or in an idealogical sense... or in a very real sense when it comes to fighting immorality and injustice.

More specifically, Obama and Hillary and Teddy and Reid and.........


244 posted on 08/16/2008 5:54:12 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Me... I'm ignorant but I do know this; God is our only hope!)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

I’m grieving right along with the rest about McCain.
It’s easier to swallow this bitter pill if I think
of a McCain vote as a NObama vote.

Are you saying that McCain is chosesn a VP???


245 posted on 08/16/2008 6:55:48 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

About Alinsky...

Hillary actually crossed paths with him and I believe was going to work for him. Obama is too young to have actually met him, but he is a member of his organization.

ALINSKY’S RULES FOR REVOLUTION
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1972236/posts

Alinsky helped to establish the confrontational political tactics, which he termed “organizing,” that characterized the 1960s and have remained central to all subsequent revolutionary movements in the United States. Both Obama and Clinton are committed disciples of Alinsky’s very specific strategies for “social change.”

Obama never met Alinsky personally; the latter died when Obama was a young boy. But Obama was trained by the Alinsky-founded Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF) in Chicago...

Alinsky’s crowning achievement was his recruitment of a young high school student named Hillary Rodham...They remained friends until Alinsky’s death in 1972....


246 posted on 08/16/2008 7:02:44 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Jo Nuvark

No, you caught me there: I have not been praying as diligently as I should, as a Christian, for this. The Slough of Despond has gotten the better of me of late.

Thank you for that much-needed reminder.

BTW a case could be made that we should be praying not only for revival, but for reformation in the church - as in a return to Luther and Calvin. It is however difficult to discuss that within an interest group this broad.


247 posted on 08/16/2008 9:16:11 PM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom

Just pray as God leads. He is calling out the warriors. Be one!


248 posted on 08/16/2008 10:09:48 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Jo Nuvark

Thank you. I saved the post in my Obama file. Alinski was a piece of work.


249 posted on 08/18/2008 4:25:24 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Regarding Jerome Corsi and Obama Nation -- are you a book reader or a book burner?)
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