Posted on 08/22/2008 8:46:44 PM PDT by neverdem
What the f.. your soldiers and citizens were doing in South Ossetia to start with? Your peacekeepers, despite what you are being lied to, were never attacked and your troops advanced into Georgia helping mercenaries shooting at Georgian villages and peacekeepers, let alone the fact that the only sources for these mercenaries to get what they had was from your own government.
That's you problem! You think you can only respect by intimidating others, because that's the only thing you respect.
Oh, bring it on. You will recall then quickly how it was to be sitting in ramshackle apartments build by Khruschov not being able to get out of your country and see anything. And then your own people, just like they did in Soviet times, will recognize and understand that this is not something to suffer for.
And before preaching to someone about freedom of speech, why don’t you return NTV and TV6 to its owners, ==
Lasha theboth stations are in hands of its owners. GAzprom and RAO ES and its heirs. Thsoe statiosn were found byt huge credits of those business entities. Those money credits were not returned. So those enities just called thier properties back.
Dude, no one denied majority of Russians support what your fascist government is doing only because that is the only thing they hear on TV all owned and controlled by Kremlin.==
It is easy for you think that way. You cann’t apprehend that your cause could be wrong.
What the f.. your soldiers and citizens were doing in South Ossetia to start with? ==
Citizens were Osetians. Palce even called South OSETIA. So Osetians just lived in Osetia. What is wrong with it?
Lasha tell me honestly. Even if I admit for one the minute they were ther wrongfully as you state then how it will give rights to Georgians to attack them with Grads and kill non armed folk indiscriminantly? Any country will react if other military force attacks her citizens. It is casus belli you know.
And I think the article is not a bad discussion piece, describing the range of attitudes. I have not done a large survey myself, but I have talked with people about this outside of the interested, analytical, often opinionated types that discuss things on FR. At least as far as the average Americans I have spoken to are concerned - sitting in their living rooms - minding their own business - perhaps watching the Olympics; their reactions have been: “Now what?”
Someone else can take up the legal case on who fired first and all that. As far as I know, you weren’t there - so you don’t know what happened. ==
Even Georgians do not deny that they MRLSEd the sleeping Tskhinvall at night then send tanks in it. The photos of reckages of those tanks was all over the internet.
So you should not deny what they do not deny themselves.
It is a fact that Putin made the political decision - unprovoked - and announced it to the world - his intent is to make Russia a powerful adversary against the west once again.==
I think it is big mistake of West. West hypocricy well noted by Russians. And West must blame it self for that.
Russia simply defended her citizens against killing by foreign military force. Any westren country do same thing.
Are you suggesting Dorenko was also owned by GazProm?.. ==
No. But he wasn’t teh owner of NTV either. He is just the journalist who worked on ORT then NTV.
Today he works on radio Echo of Moscow. He owns no valuable share of each stations he worked.
I can coprehend anything - I am trained in doing it. Can you?!
Citizens were Osetians. Palce even called South OSETIA. So Osetians just lived in Osetia. What is wrong with it?===
The wrong is that they were not supposed to have Russian passports and when Russia granted those, at the very least they had to leave because they were violating VISA regime imposed by Russia in its turn. I am sure you know what illegal immigration means, right?
Any country has a right for self-defense! read UN charter, read anything you want! If they are shooting at us - and do not tell me that this was not the case, even your one sided media was reporting considerable shootings and military build-up by Ossetians in two weeks prior to August 8. Did not you read statement by Kulakhetov, head of Russian “peacekeepers” contingent that he cannot control Kokoity anymore (I think it was published on August 5, but I may be wrong with this date). You country's citizens were illegally present on the territory and additionally were shelling Georgian villages - what the hell do you expect would have happened?! Oh, and about civilians killed - there were numerous reports on Russian TV how they were moving all civilians out of Tskhinvali between August 1 and August 7! Your media was crying loud about killing of 2000 civilians, yet is investigating wrongly death of 33 civilians only! Do you know how many civilians were killed outside of conflict zone? or how much private property was destroyed in territories 100 of KM away from Tskhinvali.
Any western country does not put its citizens in conflict zones and arms them to fight against another sovereign state! Western countries take their citizens OUT of war zones. What you describe is what people like Hitler do!
I am not asserting this! All I am saying is that he, like many others, were fired because Putin so wanted and GazProm obediently fulfill his order!
All I am saying is that he, like many others, were fired because Putin so wanted and GazProm obediently fulfill his order! ==
Yeah he got fired form NTV but he found new job equally quick. So today he critisizes goverment all day long on radio Echo of Moscow and REN TV. None closes those 2. Everyone can see and listen them.
Tell me what happened with those TV stations which Patartsikishvilli owned? Are they working now? Or still closed? How conviniently Badri died in London, didn’t he?
Any western country does not put its citizens in conflict zones and arms them to fight against another sovereign state! ==
Who putted Osetians in S.Osetia? Lasha you just pay attention on name of region: S.OSETIA. So Osetians lived in S.Osetia so long that the place itself was named after them!
Russian didn’t put them there. THEY turned to Russia for defense after got attacked by Georgians in 1992. And again today.
Georgia created mess in 1992 starting the war on Osetians and even more complicate the matter by this sudden attack on Aug 08, 2008.
If they are shooting at us - and do not tell me that this was not the case, even your one sided media was reporting considerable shootings and military build-up by Ossetians in two weeks prior to August 8. ==
I do not deny that. They shot on you and your side shot on them. Theere were low going hostilities. But your side created the surge of hostilities by the attack on Aug 08. Now your side use the methods of the propaganda war by putting the blame on Russia. But Russia has no choice. If she didn’t help her citizens and peacekeepers then what kind of country she would be? Whole Caucasus would blame Russia if she didn’t help.
I may understand that your president simply lost his temper and ordered the strike on Tskhinval out of his anger. But by his action he putted Russia in no choice situation do you understand that? Russia couldn’t leave our peacekeepers and citizens alone under georgian attacks.
Beleive me. The overwhelming majority of Russians do not want to occupy you. We even do not feel no hostility to Georgians as the people. 1 mln of Georgians live in Russia today and it is safe for them here. We blame only Saakashvilli.
Tell me what happened with those TV stations which Patartsikishvilli owned? Are they working now? Or still closed? How conviniently Badri died in London, didn’t he?
They are working alright; They did not fire anyone and they are broacasting whatever they feel like, as usual. Whether or not Badri dies conveniently, well, unlike KGB I really doubt an ability of our security service to do anything like FSB did to Litvinenko...
I have not seen Darenko on REN TV, but most certainly I can see that Echo Moskvy is only a radio and its TV version, i.e. RTVi is prohibited in Russia
I do not deny that. They shot on you and your side shot on them. Theere were low going hostilities. But your side created the surge of hostilities by the attack on Aug 08. Now your side use the methods of the propaganda war by putting the blame on Russia. But Russia has no choice. If she didn’t help her citizens and peacekeepers then what kind of country she would be? Whole Caucasus would blame Russia if she didn’t help.===
That’s complete BS Russian media is selling to the world! The surge of hostilities was created when Russia ordered first column of what you referred to as task force, consisting of some 100+ tanks to move into Georgia and Georgia responded by artillery fire, including those GRAD you were referring so vehemently the other day.
I may understand that your president simply lost his temper and ordered the strike on Tskhinval out of his anger. But by his action he putted Russia in no choice situation do you understand that? Russia couldn’t leave our peacekeepers and citizens alone under georgian attacks.===
Russia has created this situation in the very first place. What the hell were Russian troops repairing railway in Abkhazia to districts that are largely deserted?! How the hell Ossetians acquired heavy artillery? Why the hell Russian warplanes were intruding on a territory of a sovereign state? Why the hell Russia shot down the drone and then denied it for more than a month only to acknowledge it now?
Beleive me. The overwhelming majority of Russians do not want to occupy you. We even do not feel no hostility to Georgians as the people. 1 mln of Georgians live in Russia today and it is safe for them here. We blame only Saakashvilli.===
Oh, please, I have heard this story so many times it makes me vomit! there were 50,000 killings in Russia directed against Kavkaztsy, and mainly Georgians last year. Like your folks were not running around schools requesting lists of children with Georgian last names?! You blame Saakashvili, and we blame Putin and entiry FSB. Even I have witnessed some attempts on our side to settle things peacefully with Russia, but they were ALWAYS receiving cold shoulder in Moscow. I wrote you in one of the posts, but you again choose to ingore it like many others - you really think Georgians want to be part of NATO? You really think we want to fight with Iran? The only reason Georgia wants to be part of NATO - and this is irrespective of whether Saakashvili remains the president or not - is because you folks never understand what RESPECT means!
No, who put those Russian citizens there that do not belong, were not born and hate Ossetia. Half of the government of South Ossetia were ethnic Russians, mostly GRU employees! Those people that were fighting with Georgians in 1992 are now siding with Georgians: Sanakoev was head of militia then, Sakrusov had the best and the largest group of fighters in South Ossetia! These guys are now standing in Gori - did you know that? Or did you know that the head of security of Kokoity was murdered in his apartment only for talking with Georgian government. Or how many officials were dismissed, imprisoned, intemindated by Kokoity and his FSB / GRU henchmen for voicing ideas of settling with Georgia?! Putin has openly told Saakashvili: do not expect gifts from us in South Ossetia and Abkhazia like we gave you in Ajara; everything, I really mean, everything was done not to settle these conflict and the only one that was interesting in maintaining this was Russia and Russia alone. There are more ossetians in the rest of Georgia than there were in south ossetia proper - you really think this people wanted to fight with Georgians?Q!?!?!?
The surge of hostilities was created when Russia ordered first column of what you referred to as task force, consisting of some 100+ tanks to move into Georgia and Georgia responded by artillery fire, including those GRAD you were referring so vehemently the other day.==
Ahh:) It is new propaganda stunt?:). Lasha this thing happened few days ago. Many witnesses including Americans who watched it from above saw that no tanks columns crossed Rokki until day Aug08, day after night attack on Tskhinval.
What the hell were Russian troops repairing railway in Abkhazia to districts that are largely deserted?! How the hell Ossetians acquired heavy artillery? Why the hell Russian warplanes were intruding on a territory of a sovereign state? Why the hell Russia shot down the drone and then denied it for more than a month only to acknowledge it now?==
First of all, the watching drones were forbiden by the peace agreement signed by Georgia itself.
Secondly, Russian plane intruded only once just by call from peacekeepers for airsupport in July,2008. Accually they prevented the daytime attack of georgian force on peacekeepers. That is why Geogrians attacked at night on Aug08, to prevent Russian airforces to help peacekeepers.
Heavy artillary Ostians got as the war prophies from georgian army during first war 1992.
there were 50,000 killings in Russia directed against Kavkaztsy, and mainly Georgians last year.==
It is just plain BS:).
The only reason Georgia wants to be part of NATO - and this is irrespective of whether Saakashvili remains the president or not - is because you folks never understand what RESPECT means!==
You want to be the part of NATO because you small country big friend who will defend you and you simply afraid to live neutral.
Half of the government of South Ossetia were ethnic Russians, mostly GRU employees!==
Yaeh:). You tell me that Kokoiti is from Russia’ GRU?:) By your words GRU is so formidable organisation:). Accually it is just army intellegence.
There are more ossetians in the rest of Georgia than there were in south ossetia proper - you really think this people wanted to fight with Georgians?Q!?!?!? ==
I beleive you. In Russia we have 1 mln of Georgians who probably do not want to fight with Russia too. So what?
Sanakoev was the osetian militia leader in 1992? I didn’t know that. Interesting.
No, who put those Russian citizens there that do not belong, were not born and hate Ossetia.==
Lashs you imply that we need that peace of land? S.Osetia? Look to the map. We have lot of land. We do not need no more.
We didn’t make S.Osetians to love Russia. Accully they turn to Russia under same curcumstance as you turned to NATO. They simply hate Georgians because of wars you started. But anyways they are friends of Russia who voluntarily took russian passports. I think Russia should support her friends if any.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.