Posted on 09/24/2008 11:33:33 AM PDT by celtic-cat
UPDATE Wednesday 2:00 pm
I have a pretty good feeling that we will have a permit to gather on the west Capital lawn on Saturday from 10:00 AM til 6: PM, not in writing yet, but so far it looks good.
(Excerpt) Read more at tickerforum.org ...
When: Saturday, Sept. 27 - 9am til 6pm Where: Washington, DC at or near the Capitol steps Who: Everyone who can get there, PLEASE HELP!
More information at http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticke...255&page=2#new
Suggestions for signs and handouts are at tickerforum.org as well.
Let's stand up against this monstrosity of a bill.
PING!
"You cannot:
- bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift;
- help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer;
- further the brotherhood of man by encouraging class hatred;
- help the poor by destroying the rich;
- keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn;
- establish security on borrowed money;
- build character and courage by taking away a person's initiative & independence;
- help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
These words, often erroneously attributed to Abraham Lincoln, were from Rev. Wm. J. H. Boetcker in "Inside Maxims," in the Year 1916 (see Harper's Magazine, May, 1950, "Lincoln Never said That").
I don’t know that I can get there, but am marking this thread just in case. Thank you for the post, and in advance for attending. And thanks to FedUpUSA!
Paulson has come up with a free market plan that has the best chance of not costing a 10 year recession like happened in Japan in the 90’s and even possibly making a profit for the tax payers like the RTC - the guy is smart and doing his best.
If this is not done - forget your 401k, your credit card and ever getting a car loan - this is a real problem caused by those inside the beltway fiddling while the USA burned - Paulson is doing his best to save your bacon!
I understand perfectly that Wall Street has invested poorly, leveraged insanely, received payouts that far exceed their performance and that now they are looking to the American taxpayer to fix their greedy errors.
Paulson has come up with a plan which on its face is a complete coup and he is looking to have unlimited power without oversight or review by any body including Congress or the courts.
Opinions my certainly differ, but giving unlimited power over US Treasury funds to an appointed individual with no oversight or ability to review is national suicide.
There are other solutions and other ideas. Have you not seen the letter from vast numbers of economists who feel that THIS proposed legislation is in error? Have you not researched the other solutions that have been advanced? At least look at Fedupusa.com before you accept the word of a corrupt financier.
I have five times as much in cash (US and foreign) as I have in a 401k
I have two credit cards. Balances - $0.
I always buy used cars and pay cash.
I'm the kind of person that no one ever needs to bail out
Capisce?
I think it's an honor to find a good car and keep it alive and healthy as long as possible.
That's how I was raised by folks who had no debt, etc,.etc., just like you.
That's what make me furious, we're supposed to care about irresponsible worthless whores, sorry but that's what I see and feel.
The March For Justice, Oct. 31, 1998.
Whoops!
Meant to post that response to “How did you find FR” thread.
HST, wish I still lived in DC area — I’d join you!
I personally think that the people who should really pay for this stuff include those community activists, government bureaucrats, and politicians who pressured and forced financial institutions to offer mortgages to people who simply did not qualify, all due to the apparent and misguided belief that everybody was entitled to a home. If this hadn’t happened, the institutions could sell mortgage-backed securities until the cows came home, with less risk of going belly-up.
But...I will admit there is a lot going on right now that I don't understand. And no one seems to be willing to go into a decent explanation. I've thought about calling the financial adviser, but I don't know if I'll still get decent advice? I understand that risky mortgages, bundled into other investment vehicles and sold to investors has moved some banks from moderate risk, to under capitalized risk?
So...the government is trying to tell me $700 billion of these instruments exist? Wow. That seems to be a lot more than I ever realized. How did they come up with that number, which we all know is going to grow into over a trillion. If there is any kind of bailout, shouldn't it be in regards to the core vehicle. I mean the real estate still exists, no? After that the gamblers on Wall Street should lose. I know I invested fully understanding things were not FDIC insured and may lose value. Like I said there is much of this I do not understand. The amount is just part of it.
Second, congress wasn't asleep at the switch. The Bush Administration has tried over a dozen times to get congress to address this looming issue. He was actively rebutted at every attempt.
Third, after all this bailout hoopla is signed into law, we the people need to demand a hard evaluation and reworking of the legislation that created this problem in the first place. And that means some people can't afford homes and will live in rent their whole lives. Affordable housing needs to change from homeownership to having a safe secure place to live, be it a house/condo/apartment. Affordable housing should mean the mortgage is given to those who can afford it. The whole system that got us here needs to change.
Lastly, the President talked about this being a credit issue and repeated the phrase credit market. Fine, it has to do with credit...but what does that mean to you or me who doesn't use credit or uses it modestly?
From W's 9.24 address:
Under our proposal, the federal government would put up to $700 billion taxpayer dollars on the line to purchase troubled assets that are clogging the financial system.
In the short term, this will free up banks to resume the flow of credit to American families and businesses, and this will help our economy grow.
Second, as markets have lost confidence in mortgage-backed securities, their prices have dropped sharply, yet the value of many of these assets will likely be higher than their current price, because the vast majority of Americans will ultimately pay off their mortgages.
The government is the one institution with the patience and resources to buy these assets at their current low prices and hold them until markets return to normal.
And when that happens, money will flow back to the Treasury as these assets are sold, and we expect that much, if not all, of the tax dollars we invest will be paid back".
Keep in mind the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 carried a price tag $276,000,000,000 and your not paying back for the US Treasury check you cashed :)
For an interesting historical perspective of "letting the markets sort it out" I refer you to the Panic of 1893 which was worse than the "great" depression.
Put simply, the rich young prince crashed his uninsured Ferrari, and he’s crying to Uncle Sam to get all the Chevy Nova drivers to buy him a new one.
I don’t have near enough savings but my wife and I have 3 cars that are paid for. The only debt we have is on two gas cards but haven’t used them in months...trying to pay them off.
I’d be all for this bail out if I could see Chrissy Dodd, Gorelick, Raines, Johnson and every politician who took bribes from Fannie and Freddie doing the perp walk. But I’m not holding my breath that I’ll ever see that.
Exactly the question I asked when people who couldn't afford to own a house (responsibly) were forced to pay to rebuild houses for people who chose to live in areas known to flood.
“No bail out! Why in the hell do people who rent, need to buy a house for someone who cannot qualify? People have to live within their means! Bailing out the system is rewarding stupidity. CEO’s should be going to jail and worse!”
I say stop keeping this dead duck alive. That’s all they’re doing. And evidently, just because you and I may be an exception, one does NOT have to live within their means. That’s the new economy that the dedicated handful around here have been for years telling us ‘morons’ to worship.
“Lie, cheat and steal’...that’s the new global economy. Just like Mexico, China, etc. When you sell out to third worlders, you start behaving like them. I refuse.
I’d like to see it all fall flat, so working hard to maintain good credit actually meant something again and honesty in business became the trend rather than the exception.
And as for ‘stupidity’....corrupt politicians like stupidity. It’s insurance.
“If this is not done - forget your 401k, your credit card and ever getting a car loan - this is a real problem caused by those inside the beltway fiddling while the USA burned - Paulson is doing his best to save your bacon! “
I stand to lose thousands if this doesn’t go through. But if it does go through, the ‘crash’ will still eventually happen because we are how many trillion more in debt?
I could be wrong, I’ll concede that. Don’t bet your life on it. Why did Paulson wait ‘til the bacon was burning before attempted to turn down the stove? I don’t trust the very same people to fix this mess that sanctioned it.
“No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.” - George Washington to James Madison 1789.
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